45/70 Handi rifle

[dlt205]

IÂ’m working up a load for a 45/70 Handi rifle. After firing a round I find a lot of unburned powder in the barrel.
The loads IÂ’m using are as follows:
50gr varget 405gr Cast Performance WLNGC
54gr varget 350gr Hornady Interlock FP
Winchester Large rifle and federal 215 primers

Is this normal? Suggestions

[lik2hunt]

It happened on mine with the factory 300gr. Remingtons.

[44 Man]

OK.  But are your loads accurate and do they achieve the velocity you desire?  If they shoot well, who cares.  I shoot a 405 gr rn gc cast bullet over 30 gr of 5744.  It shoots extremely accurate and velocity is near 1500 fps.  When you look down the barrel, it almost looks like there is a teaspoon of powder lying along the bottom of the barrel.  I DON'T CARE!  The load does what I want it to do.  Yes, there may be powders out there that do not do that, try them if you wish.  As for me, I'm sticking with this load!  44 Man

[kjg]

I shoot 38 grains of 3031 and ahve tha same thing but they are accurate at least in my gun and it does leave unburnt powder. kjg

[coltnavy36]

3031 does that to me all the time in ALL my rifles that use it.
It still works well though.
But I've moved to 4198 for now in the ones that'll take it well.
That 3031 turns yellowish, and icck.!
But no probs. No big deal if it still shoots well.
D

[ogo]

I had that problem with IMR-3031 in both my Buff Classic and T/C contender. I now use IMR-SR-4759, with cast bullet's, no more unburnt powder. Like was said with the 3031 it did not affect accuracy, just bugged the heck out of me when I looked down the bore.*****************ogo

[lonewolf5347]

I find a lot of unburned powder in the barrel.
 
I been using IMR 3031 the last 40 years in different cal. and never seem to run into that problem.I wonder what brand primers you are using,for me I favor CCI primers.The one cal: I loaded for years is my A3-03 Springfield in 06 with around 45-46 grains of 3031 and now I load 44.5 in the Handi and see no left-over powder

[quickdtoo]

Heh heh, the easy way to solve the unburned powder in the bore problem, if it is considered a problem, is to not look in the bore!!!! :-D  :-D  :-D

[ogo]

Now why didn't I think of that? LOL*******************ogo

[Mac11700]

Not having much luck on repairing my Jeep myself...so I figured I would see what's up on here...

DLT205...trying to get a good load for thoise 2 bullets using Varget ehh...2 things to remember with the 45-70 cases...to ensure getting the powder to burn completely...you need enough bullet pull on the case to get it...Pick up a Lee factory crimp die and use it...My 2400 fps 300 grain Nosler partiton load requires a good solid crimp...and when I loaded both of the bullets your using...I tried Varget...but was very disapointed in the results...50 grns. of Varget is a max trapdoor load with the 405 CPWLNGC bullet..and...you don't have to worry about hurting the rifle going a little higher velocity...just you shoulder... ...so...I have had great accuracy with Reloader 7 & at 46 grains with the 405 Cast Performance bullets...velocity was about 1835 fps out of my 26" Marlin Cowboy..and 1710fps with the 18-1/2"  Marlin Guide Gun...but you really need a good heavy crimp...and the Lee Factory Crimp die will certainly do a good job...Lymn list the load for #1's and #3's Rugers...but the pressures are way down around 23,000 cup...so it will be safe in the Handi...You can try the same amount in with the 350 Hornady...but with you velocities as low as what they are...you might be better off going to a 300 grain Speer Unicore...you'll get much better expansion with it...over the 350 grainers on deer...and the trajectory will be better as well...My favorite powder for the 45-70 is H4198...and it burns completely clean as long as I have a super tight crimp...and accuracy is MOA with the 300 grain Partitions and the factory loadings on these are around 1850 fps...and they are MOA as well from my rifle...so...you could load them up a-little higher if you choose to.....My partition load is not a plinking load...but one of the best hunting loads I have every loaded for the 45-70...Another powder I have heard works good...is H 4895...the velocities should be close to what your getting now with the Varget...and pressures will be down around 21,700 cup for using 53 grains of it......If you want a little more velocity with the 350 Hornady...you could also try some H322 for it...52 grains will net you around 1898 fps...at 25,800 Cup...the recoil will certainly be more brisk...but your not really going to be benching the heavier loads a-lot anyway...the H322 will work for the 405 grainers too...47 grains to start for 1669fps.24,800 cup....53 grains max for 1909fps..37,000 cup...

All my loads are in new Remingtons nickle cases using Remingtons 9-1/2 primers...all of them are safe in my rifles...can't say about yours...

Mac

[dlt205]

Thanks for the info. I have the lee crimp die but didn't use it on any of the reloads. I will try that next. I also use the lyman M die to expand the case mouth. I've been getting inconsistent range results with the varget loads and Handi rifle. One day the hornady 350's shoot moa and the next not. Same for the CP405's. I also have some Remington 300gr and they are no better. Hopefully, the crimp will help with this. I usually swab the barrel after each shot to remove the powder residue. However,  on my last range visit I did not swap the barrel and on the last four shots got the best grouping so far.  After buying the Hornady 350's, I've now learned they are not recommended for deer unless pushed above 1800fps. Deer are my main target but hogs are numerous in our area. I've seen alot of recommendations for the 300 grain Speer Unicore bullet & Partitions and may order some of those. Will the Handi handle the ruger 1 & 3 loads?

Thanks

[Mac11700]

Can it handle #1 & #3 loads...that all depends on what manual your looking in and who you ask     In a word...no...the NEF's aren't rated for max Ruger loads....Seriously though...I wouldn't suggest loading it up to the max loadings for them...if your wanting that much power in a single shot...go with the Ruger...it's built to take the pressures...The main differences with the partitions...is the increased bearing surface on them..and you have to take that into account when loading with them and keeping an eye for pressure signs...They have given me stellar performance both on paper and deer...out of any 45-70 I've owned ...

The 45-70 is one of those cartridges that just keeps on going...my load isn't a mild sedate paper punching load...and it isn't for the faint of heart either.. I did have a long lengthy discussion with the good folks at Hodgdons a couple years back...and they said is was safe for the Marlin 1895GS I was shooting it in.....There are folks shooting much heavier loads thru theirs here...but I wouldn't go much further than those I have worked up on it with the partition..not that I don't trust the rifle..but anything beyond my load isn't giving you back enough to justify the recoil generated...and I'm not a recoil shy person..At 2300-2400 fps with the partitions...there aren't too many critters that it can't take cleanly...out at 200 yards...but you need a good recoil pad like the Limbsaver on it..a couple pounds of lead in the stock...and a good cheek piece...with those in place..it's not bad at all...compared to some other heavy kicking rounds....

Mac

[bajabill]

I had the same problem with Varget, but I also had a lot of smoke in the barrel after each shot.  I had to blow it out to see thru it.   I went to Reloader 7 and am very happy with it.  Accurate and acceptable velocity with room to grow if I wanted to.  The barrel clears out after every shot too.  I think the Varget was too slow for the 45-70.  I only used it because I had it already and could find load data for 300gr bullets with it.  Hodgdon lists data for varget for nearly every cartridge I look at     Im not knocking Varget though, it is a good versatile powder so I still have it and use it elsewhere.