Range time with the 45-70

[Ed Hill]

I have not been satisfied with the accuracy I have been getting with cast bullets in my BC, so I broke the "one change at a time" rule this weekend.
I purchased some O rings about 10 months ago and didn't see much improvement, so I took one out of the cleaning kit and actually put it on the rifle.
 
I had been using 405gr flat nosed 20-1 bullets, I loaded Lazer cast 405's       ( the 3 lube groove design) for this weekend. I took 4 loads, 32grns of IMR 3031, 25 grns of 5744, and 11 and 13 grns of Unique. These loads are all published in the One Caliber 45-70 booklet, but please check before using in your gun.  I have been using a soft crimp, I went with a firm crimp this time.
 
Oddly enough, at 50 yds all these loads shot at the same place. I had a nice little group going between the 8 and 9 ring at 10:00. Because we were experiencing 30 mph winds at the range, I didn't bother adjusting the Williams target sight. I moved out to 100yds and had the same impact point. The bullets must have been on the way up at 50yds, and the way down at 100yds. the 11 grn Unique load shot about 1" lower than the others at 100 yds.
 
60 rounds later, I had a hardball sized hole at the 10:00 position, and all these loads seemed to perform OK. The 3031 and the 11 grns of Unique seemed to produce the tightest groups. I didn't measure any because of the wind ( the benchrest guy next to me had two of the little windmills out at 25 and 75 yds to check the wind, they both blew over). I'll try the two better loads next time I go out, and see what type of measured groups I get.
 
I'm not sure if it was the O ring, the hard crimp, or the lazercast bullets, but the combo really tightened up my groups.
Ed

[Paul5388]

Ed,

My .45-70 has a floated barrel and I only use enough crimp to straighten out the case mouth.  With 12.0 gr of Green Dot or 12.0 gr of Universal and a 405 gr Brass Plus cast bullet I get close to 1" groups at 100 yards.  Velocity is low, about 1050 fps with the Green Dot load and a little lower with Universal, but they shoot good enough for 100 yard shots (about 6" high at 50 yards).

5744 and SR 4759 haven't given me groups this good.

300 gr Rem JHP with 20.0 gr Blue Dot, Win LR in R-P brass shoots pretty good for me also.  The velocity is 1514 fps, but I use a 22" standard Handi barrel.

The recoil on these loads is considerably less than 5744 or SR 4759 loads.

[Mac11700]

I'm not sure if it was the O ring, the hard crimp, or the lazercast bullets, but the combo really tightened up my groups.

Hmmmmmmmmm...maybe all 3?....

I'm glad it's coming together for you... :agree:

I use a Lee Factory crimp die for my 45-70...and wouldn't have it any other way...while I don't shoot those mild loads thru my Handi ...and never on any of my Marlins....I've always used a heavy crimp with them...from 300 grainers up...and with that heavy crimp...I've gotten some of the lowest standard deviations than any other cartridges I have ever loaded...I've only broken into the single digits a few times with it...but...those loads are simply amazing...and the ones I currently use now..

Mac

[Ed Hill]

These are all plinker loads, and the only one that kicked at all was the 3031. I was wearing a shoulder pad, but after 60+ rounds I have no sore shoulder, and no built in flinch!  

I'll play around with the two loads next time, light crimp, hard crimp, and see what performs best. One nice thing about the Unique loads, I can shoot one after the 3031 or 5744 and it cleans all that unburnt powder.
Ed

[Paul5388]

Obviously, a crimp isn't needed in a single shot, unless it makes it shoot better.  Mine shoots better without a crimp, just like my .357 Mag does and all of my bottlenecked cases do.

Heavy loads are needed if the deer are armor plated, but I haven't ever seen that variety in Gasconade, Osage or Maries Counties and we certainly don't have them in Texas (the state, not the county in MO).  :roll:

I did look at those Brass Plus 405s and saw that they are sized .459", but I also get the same kind of groups if I substitute 405 gr Rem JSP bullets and they are just .458".

[Mac11700]

Heavy loads are needed if the deer are armor plated

Or...if you prefere shooting them...the trade off is more recoil...obviously...but with a 239 yard point blank range...it sure beats the snot out of any other loading for it...and with the right bullet ...say the Nosler 300 grain partition...your good for elk or whitetails cause it will work for both...now...just plinking around...a nice mild cast bullet load will suffice...or just whitetails...the 300 grain Uni-Core at 1800-1900 should be deadly...and cheaper and not as much recoil too....and like I said...I don't load the 45-70 for that...yet...in time I just might...so...believe me when I say I am writting all this data down from those of you that do..:agree:....even then...I'll still use the factory crimp die...but I may lighten it up some to see how it does...

Mac

[Paul5388]

Mac,

You know I'm only poking fun at you and your recoil addiction!  :lol:

Here's a view from my new deer stand that shows two blaze orange range markers at 50 yards and 90 yards (the gate is 75 yards).  (The fore ground is actually burgandy carpet.  That's to keep my grandchildren from playing the stand like a drum when they're kicking and fidgeting around!)



The 90 yard marker is on my property line, so that's as far as I am supposed to shoot.  That 1"-2" group at 100 yards is all I need to do the job, but I'm actually using my .357 Mag with 250 gr Beartooth LRNFPGC at 1200 fps.  That bullet should get to the target before the sound gets there!  :wink:

[jritter]

just my two cents, because I was wondering about the crimping on reloading my 45-70, with a lee loader.  My rifle likes it much better with no crimp at all, but it could be because of the crappy crimp method of the lee loader die. :roll:   Otherwise I am still looking for a better reason to upgrade my reloading equipment.  :grin:

[dodd3]

i use a tapper crimp die its the only way to go, have never looked back since i have been using it .
bernie