Author Topic: Ruger QC  (Read 1549 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PeterF.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Ruger QC
« on: November 18, 2005, 10:46:41 AM »
I been reading over & over Ruger owners' complaints about: 1) "It shoots low-and-left"; and 2) "I immediately replaced the cylinder pin with a Belt Mountain because otherwise it popped right out".  I'm not trying to take work or money away from gunsmiths or Belt Mountain, but why can't Ruger take a little more time and make it right the first time? I'd think it would be worth it for the good PR and customer relations.

Offline BlkHawk73

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1501
  • Gender: Male
Ruger QC
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2005, 11:44:18 AM »
Well, let's see...the most common problem with "low and left" shots are that the shooter is jerking or slapping the trigger.    Learn trigger control and eliminate the "low and left" shots.   Of course too many shooters blame the gun rather than themselves.

  I've got plenty of Rugers and shot plenty others.  Know many that have more and shot more.  The issues with the cylinder pin is almost always due to using the really heavy recoiling loads.  In these cases, the folks would usually have the knowledge and foresight to buy and install these oversized and lockable pins.  

   Do more reading and you'll find that Ruger customer service is highly regarded and get's more positive mention than any other manufacturer.  When was the last time you car manufacturer gave you free parts out of "warrantee"?
"Never Surrender, Just Carry On."  - G.S.

Offline PeterF.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Ruger QC
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2005, 12:40:57 PM »
Customer service (that is, "If it's wrong, we'll fix it") is great ... and if Ruger is good in that area, good for them.  I'm talking about the product "out of the box".  I don't buy the "shooter error" re. low & left; there's probably 10 strings on this forum alone talking about that problem.  And, if "knowledgeable" shooters can readily replace the cylinder pin, why can't Ruger just make one like that in the first place.  They've got similar issues with the triggers on their 10/22 rifles; nearly everyone replaces them with an aftermarket [Volquartson (sp?)].  And it's not just Ruger; numerous brands have well-known problems with their products out-of-the-box (Browning HiPower triggers for instance.  And a few (Savage rifles and CZ .22s for instance) have a particularly good reputation for out-of-the-box quality.  For the money we're paying (granted, Rugers are good value for the money, especially compared to the high-end SAs), we shouldn't have to have further (expensive) work done to get it to work "right".  Just my 2 cents.

Offline BlkHawk73

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1501
  • Gender: Male
Ruger QC
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2005, 04:49:05 PM »
Quote
I don't buy the "shooter error" re. low & left; there's probably 10 strings on this forum alone talking about that problem


  Well maybe so but can ALL be blamed on the gun?  Doubt it.  That shot placement is a very commonality for untrained shooter or a shooter just not entirely proficient with a particualr speciman.  I don't buy that it's all the gun.  The load used have a bit to do with it also.  How many people settle on one load because it's what they wany and not what load the particualr gun prefers?  
 

  'Smiths have been doing aftermarket work on all guns for years and years and years.  Keeps them in business.  Not everyone buying gun requires a match trigger.  For those that do, the extra few dollars (expensive is relative) shouldn't be an issue, especially if they paid so little to begin with.  Put in the fancy parts from the factory and it'll price them out of the beginner's realm This sport needs beginners. Moot to do seperate runs  doing some with these special parts and others without. Just not enough time and labor to keep up with the demand anyway.  If you want these features in a stcok gun, buy a Freedom Arms for $1200 or a fancy Euro bolt gun for $2000.  These guns you mention are designed and built for the American shooter.  Most of which won't toss the money for the high dollar guns from the start.  But if that's the levl one wants, spend the money to get that.    
   I've got no problem paying for quality.  I do like Ruger and do have a fair number of them.  I tinker with them to improve thier triggers and other functions.  No big deal.  Heck, I've got 10/22's where the trigger group alone outcost the whole gun new.   I've very happy with thier products I buy.  However, if I want higher factory quality, I'll spend the money to get that.  Ex:  I don't care for Ruger's autos.  In that case, I'll spend 2x-3x the amount and buy HK's.  Perfect from the start.  
  Either way you see it, Ruger can't be doing very little wrong.  Countless awards and decades of leading the Americn firearms market in design and manufactuering.  Must be doing something right if other gun manufacturers come to them for parts/frames.   :wink:
"Never Surrender, Just Carry On."  - G.S.

Offline Iowegan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 646
Ruger QC
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2005, 09:02:14 AM »
BlkHawk73, Excellent post! I own a variety of guns and try not to be "brand sensitive" just because I own quite a few Rugers. No, they are not the best guns you can buy but they are the "best bang for the buck".

I totally agree with the "low left" issue. I have fired many customer's guns where they claim the gun isn't shooting to POA (usually low - left). I seldom have a problem keeping the holes in the black. This issue is with all hand guns, not just Rugers. Usually a "fix" is nothing more than a pair of grips that fit the shooter and of course some training and practice. No company can make a gun that fits everone's hand. No company can design a gun to eliminate shooter errors. Single action revolvers are the hardest gun to master for marksmanship. This is because the lock time is so long. Lock time is the time it takes from when the trigger is pulled until the primer is struck. A S&W K frame has a 39 milisecond (.039 seconds) lock time whereas a Ruger Blackhawk has a 75 milisecond. The extra lock time gives the shooter plenty of time to drift off target.

As for the base pins, yes, they will "launch" if the shooter exceeds the gun's design limits. The good news is the Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks will take this abuse and still stay in one piece. Try that with another brand and you might be short some body parts. The real fix for base pins is a stronger latch spring (about a buck). Though the Belt Mountain Base Pins are an excellent product, they are more of a custom accessory than a "needed" part. They do indeed prevent base pin launching but so does the $1 latch spring.

I've been a gunsmith since the early 70's. My shops were located in the western states where Rugers out sold all other brands by a good margin. I seldom got a Ruger in for repair where a part was broken or worn out. Mostly, it was an action job, custom sights, grips, or rebluing. Can't say that about S&Ws, Colts, etc. That should tell you something.

It's only fair to say, the worst gun I ever bought was a Ruger KP-345PR. It had more problems right out of the box than any gun I've ever seen, 13 in all. I could have repaired the gun myself but I thought Ruger should do it just because. In my frustration and while the gun was at the factory, I bought a new SIG P-220. Same basic profile and caliber. This is about the finest example of quality you have ever seen. It should be too, it cost more than double of what I paid for the Ruger. I got the P-345 repaired and it is now an excellent shooter. The problems were from poor quality control on the internal parts and a few workmanship issues. I will probably sell it some day, not because of accuracy or function, just because the P-220 is a quantum leap better. Though Ruger P-guns are usually an excellent value, I'd have a hard time recommending a P-345 to anyone.
GLB

Offline PeterF.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 230
Ruger QC
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2005, 11:26:19 AM »
OK.  I'll yield to the experts, the informed, the experienced.  It just seemed to me there was a common set of problems and common solutions to those problems that could have been applied at the manufacturing stage rather than making the owner deal with it after-market.  Maybe it just shows up in association with Rugers so much because there are so many of them out there.  Oh well. Live & learn (or shoot & learn). Thanks to you both for your imformative comments. Peter F.

Offline myronman3

  • Moderator
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4837
  • Gender: Male
Ruger QC
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2005, 09:03:24 AM »
i disagree.  i think ruger has issues with their super blackhawks.  i had three that the barrels unscrewed and i was shooting mid range loads.

ruger did fix them,  but they 1.  took a long time.   2.   one gun came back looking like it had been dragged behind a pickup for two miles.  

when a gun comes in for repair for something that never should have happened, and  another, and another;  if  i were running that company, i would be doing everything i could to treat that person exceptionally well.  they did not.  

yes, ruger has problems.   and like i said in another post,  you couldnt give me a sbh.

Offline hpdrifter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 99
basepin
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2005, 01:33:19 PM »
the basepin on my ruger bh .45 was just not cut deep enough.

chucked it up in a drill and deepened it with a round needle file until the latch would actually "latch".  about 10 minutes.

I'll take the $350 ruger and put 30 minutes worth of work into it and save the extra $650 for a FA and go shootin.