Sporter Air Rifle "alterations"...

[nomad]

I had the opportunity to talk with one of the silhouette committee members this weekend about the issue of modifications or alterations in sporter guns and he told me that this had been discussed at the mtg.

Basically, I understand that the committee position is as follows:

1. External modifications are NOT permitted. (I didn't think to ask whether this included LOP adjustments but I doubt that those are prohibited. At least, they always were allowed and I wouldn't DQ anything presented to me at tech for a change in LOP any more than I'd complain because not everyone fits the same size 12 shoe that I do!)

2. Internal changes are a little gray and, therefore, the wording of the rule will not be changed...it just requires a common sense approach:

a. The committee agreed that the intent of the rule had never been to prohibit us from adjusting triggers, replacing springs that are misbehaving, fixing factory QC problems and things along those lines.
b. Internal mods that change a basic, normal spring gun's performance such that they provide a ballistic advantage over others on the line are prohibited.

IOW. if what you do provides you with a rifle that you think 'feels' a little 'better' or a little 'smoother', that's fine. If OTOH you arrive at the range with your newly 'adjusted' rifle and the first time you pull the pin there's an ear-splitting CRACK and a bank of targets vaporizes, you're in trouble... lol
(Please -- if anyone wants to start shouting: "Hey! That guy put in a new spring and when I watched him set his sights I saw that he's using 1/4 moa less elevation to get to the rams than I do! HE MUST BE CHEATING!" feel free to jump right into that mud pit -- but I don't think most of the people on the line will go there with you. I won't. See the comment above about common sense.)

This has always been a poorly worded rule. For one thing I've never been able to see how it's enforceable. We have no authority to tear down anyone's rifle and unless someone can figure out how else to determine whether the internals have been modified, I for one know of no way to check. (You can ask the shooter but, if he's a cheat and you think that he's likely to tell you he's cheating, then all I can say is: Good Luck!)

IMO this is a reasonable and intelligent interpretation by the committee. I'd guess that there's someone out there who'll try to push the limits until the balloon is ready to burst but that's why we have juries at matches. I doubt that there's enough paper available to write a bulletproof rule on this -- unless we institute a tear-down authorization. (And unless we figure out a way whereby every match director would be made familiar enough with ALL the factory rifles and parts out there that he could invariably recognize a replacement spring or modded/replaced guides, etc once the rifle was torn down...which I think is unlikely!)

We throw a bunch of rocks at the committee whenever they screw up -- and that's the way it should be. (Being human, they're subject to making errors; but at the same time they have a responsibility to the game to make a serious effort to make as few as possible. If they can't accept that, they should not be in a position of authority.)
When they 'done good' -- as I think they've done here -- we should applaud their efforts.

[Slowstdy]

Hum, Now do I get this right, you can cheat as long as it is only a little bit and it cant be seen. Second word in rule 3.3 (b) is UNALTERED. I don’t see any thing about unless QC is not up to scratch. You are a very respected person in the silhouette field and it upsets me to read this from you.
And, the committee did a good job because they let people spend thousand of $ on a gun that now they can't use. Don’t say you can use it in open class, 3 of my friends and I have open guns all ready, and if my memory serves me, you recommended the walther to me, and others on this site.
Rule changes should be notified to the members before they go to committee so everyone has the opportunity to let the committee know both sides of the argument. To me this was a under handed campaign by a few, and well done to them, they did an excellent job. I have already let some of the committee know my feelings. I am also digging my stock UN modified springer guns out of the safe for next year.
There is more than one way to skin a cat, but only one way to castrate it.
Cheers
Limey
AKA Dave Carpenter

[dave imas]

Wow...  Give Ernie a break.  What I read is that we are able to maintain our rifles.  Keep them up to snuff.  Fix things that break, replace things that wear.  Without that we will have to buy a new rifle when a new spring is needed.  What I also read is that some folks will, inevitably, "maintain" their rifle to a higher level of performance and there really isn't much we can do about that.  Its the truth.  You can weigh my rifle, you can check my trigger.  You can't ask me to tear it apart because you have a hunch I might have diddled with it a bit too much.  We have a necessary but mostly unenforceable rule.  I'm okay with that.  Mostly because 99% of shooters are honest...  those that aren't... well...  if I'm worried about them I'm probably not shooting very well.
dave

[nomad]

I posted a long and somewhat 'testy' response to 'Limey' on here last night and I've removed it. (Which doesn't make me feel that I was wrong but I was definitely expanding a subject that I think should be allowed to drop.)

There were a couple of reasons for the removal:

1. I shouldn't respond to much of anything at 3 am -- I tend to be confrontational and undiplomatic at that hour! (Of course, there are some who'll say that I'm always that way!) lol

2. Imas summed it up better in a few lines than I did in a whole BUNCH of paragraphs anyway. ;-)

Ernie

[GeoNLR]

If he didn't want it up, I'm not going to leave it in my post...LOL

Chicken

[nomad]

George,

We were writing at the same time.

[Slowstdy]

Ok first, Ernie if your testy reply is the one that Chicken posted then I don’t find it testy, confrontational yes, but wasn’t I being confrontational, certainly I was not diplomatic please don’t hold back in fear of offending me. PC I am not.
Dave I, I don’t think anyone should give anyone a break, if anyone or I posts their opinions thoughts etc then they should expect people with there own differing opinions to question or disagree with them. I have had heated discussions with Ernie before (mostly about rules) and I would love to sit down with him/you and a pint or two, to air our differences, this is not a good medium for debate, but better than none.
May be it’s my training or my background, but to me rules are Black and White. I did not mean to say we are not to fix, replace parts, adjust or play with our toys, it’s the people who send there guns to an air gun smith and have them tuned, custom parts replaced with different materials than the original manufacture used etc. who spend more $ on tuning than on the original cost. Under the guise of the design is the same just the QC is better. This is the point that I thought/think that Ernie is condoning. I shoot with a couple of guys who have done very minor mods to their guns, and they shoot them in Open class because they feel shooting sporter class would be cheating. This is the sportsmanship we should be encouraging and condoning.
One of my main points that may have got lost in the above is: I think possible rule changes should be posted, if this was the case, then may be……. But that would be no were near so much fun.
Sorry for keeping you up Ernie…LOL
I pretty much agree with everything that Chicken has said in his reply, I will post later as I have to go do some work.
Cheers
Limey