445sm killed one buck but now in need of better bullets

[jeff223]

i shot a small 4pt buck on Nov 15th with my 445sm hand cannon.the buck came in on a doe and was moving right along after her.i swung up on him and when the cross hair hit his shoulder the gun went off.he turned and left the same way he came in.this was a 55 or 60 yd shot and i knew i hit him good.i shot him at 10 am and at 11:30am i tracked him down.there was lots of blood but after the first 100yds of tracking i wondered just where i had hit him.about 75yds later i came upon him stone dead.after checking him out i could see i hit him right in the shoulder area but alittle low where the knuckle is.his right shoulder was all blown up,it was a total mess with lots of bone and tissue damage.the 240gr Remington JHP bullet had blown up upon hitting the knuckle.there was also some damage to the lungs but just alittle,no big hole or rip in them.just little peaces of bullet and bone made it into the lungs.

now what i need to do is change to a better hunting bullet??

1.stay with the Remingtom 240 bullet but go with the jacketed soft point?

2.go with a big cast boolit if i can get one to shoot good?say the Lee 310gr flat nose with a gas check.

3.go to the Hornady 265gr flat nose?

4.shoot the Sierra 300gr JSP bullet.i talked to the Sierra Bullet Smiths today on the phone and they said i could shoot this bullet end to end on a deer with little bullet expansion.they gave me a load too that  will shoot 1800fps of out a 14inch barrel.

your thoughts on 445 super mag hunting bullets please

[JPH45]

I thnk the Speer 270 would make a great bullet for the 445, but do avoid hollowpoints. Most are designed for 44 mag revolver velocities and run on the soft side. The XTP's are a different horse altogether.

[lik2hunt]

Jeff go with the 265gr. Hornady, it's designed for the 444 Marlin. It's also sized to .430 for those bores that may be oversized a bit. If your contender is not oversized then the Gold Dot 270gr. would be my choice.

[Ditchdigger]

I would go with the 265 gr. Hornady first,and I would try the Rem 240 soft point for accurcy. The softpoints I use in my 444 Marlin work very well on deer and hogs,and they are the same one's used in the Rem. factory loads for the 444.I shot my 445 2 times to check the zero yesterday and at 110 yds. the 2 were 1 1/4" apart at the centers. Thats a hot load for my 265 gr. Hornady's with 31.5 grs. of 296 and 2146'fps avg. The 300 gr.XTP's worked very well in my muzzleloader on the 100 pd 7 point I shot this year.   Digger

[jeff223]

thanks guys,im getting lots of input on this bullet thing from you guys here and on the other forums.i should of known better than to shoot the HP bullets for hunting but the accuracy was very good at 100yds and it held together even out at 200yds.these JHP Remingtons are sized at .429 and their JSPs are the same size.i never had the bore on this barrel slugged so i dont know if its under or over spec.i would think if the .429s shoot good it must be right in there as far as spec.i like the Remington bullets because of the price.MAYBE the JACKETED SOFT POINTS are GOOD ENOUGH?MAYBE?

if not there are lots of others to try.thats part of the fun of this game :mrgreen:

[safetysheriff]

thanks guys,im getting lots of input on this bullet thing from you guys here and on the other forums.i should of known better than to shoot the HP bullets for hunting but the accuracy was very good at 100yds and it held together even out at 200yds.:mrgreen:

if i may, i think you are missing something jeff'.   the bullet you used is maybe a little heavy for deer, but i doubt it at .445 sm' velocities..... and i think that if anything, you want to stay with the jhp's and maybe go down to a R-P 210 gr' jhp.    you admitted to where you hit the deer, which actually is a little too high.   the bone fragments caused " some damage to the lungs but just alittle".    that was not a fault of the bullet, but a fault we all have at one time or another -- including most certainly myself -- operator error.

i suggest you go with that 210 gr' jhp noted above, or else go with the hornady xtp in 240 gr's i think it is.   the velocity of the 210 gr' will allow you a flatter-shooting trajectory; a better expansion of the bullet when it hits the lungs or frontal chest the next time -- because i know you are capable of it; and lesser recoil to help with handling such a powerful cartridge!      

jd jones sold molds for hardcast bullets, but himself has said that a jacketed bullet is the ticket for deer.    a jhp is the best ticket for a deer is the only qualifier i'd dare to add.   it'll open up faster to cause more internal damage.   the soft-points are better for penetration on larger, more robust animals than whitetails.

i wish good hunting to you, because i already know you can shoot.

take care,

ss'

[Nebraska Kelly]

Hi Jeff223.  I am working on a load right now using Beartooth 280gr gc hardcast wide flat point. I will be using 32gr of 296 and a winchester large rifle primer. Can you tell me what your TC reloading data says about this load? I dont have any loading data to look at. I would expect between 1800fps and 1900fps with a sixteen inch barrel. I dont want to play around with a lot of diffrent bullets so I am looking at just heavy hardcast bullets. Once I get the accuracy I think I should have I will call it good. I would appreciate any data you would share. For example what is a MAX charge of 296 for a 300gr. What is a Max charge of 296 for a 270gr slug and so on.  Your reamer was mailed today. You should have it on monday. Thanks for its use. There is a check included in the package. I started with the Beartooth 280 wfn gc at the recomendation of the guys at Beartooth. They will arive in a couple of weeks. Just about the time I get my gun back from the shop. I will let you know how it shoots. I will be using bullets sized .432   My gunsmith slugged my barrel a couple of days ago and said he is showing .435 for my barrel. I have never heard of anyone getting that big of a measurment when they slugged there bores.
I dont know if he is just off with his measurment or if his method of slugging is suspect.  Is there anyone out there who can clear this up? These barrels are hammer forged on a mandrel and I cant believe a barrel could come out of the shop that much over sized.  I will recheck the bore diamiter when I get the rifle home. Never done it before but I must know. Thanks for passing me your TC load data.
Kelly

[Norseman112]

Congrats on your deer Jeff...to be honest I am not very familiar with your 445sm. However I would stay away hollow points....some may not agree, just my thought though.


John

[jbtazgrabber]

first buck i took with my rifle was imr 4227 with  200 xtp...not because i didnt try 240 265 or 300 it just liked the 200 better,,,135 # 6 pt shot a little high on ft shoulder deed in tracks...all 3 smaller the same way.... 240 in the ft stuffers with no running after shot but,i havnt hit a shoulder going in ....yet.....i dont think remms.are the quality the xtps are....just my opinion......jb

[ONE HOLE 4570]

I agree with L2H that a 265 hornady or 270 gold dor. The 265 have never failed me Doubble shoulder shot both nuckles throught & through quarter size hole on excit vel 2150 in a 444p

[Lone Star]

The polarization between those who like the heavies and those who like the lightweights is interesting but not surprising.  Deer are for the most part lightly-built creatures and a rapidly-opening bullet will kill them faster with a heart-lung shot.  But place the same bullet in heavy bone (if a deer can be said to have "heavy" bone) and it can fail - HP or SP doesn't matter.  Trying to take a quartering shot which requires a lot of penetration is not the light bullet's forte either.

But the heavier/tougher bullets will not expand as well and will not kill as quickly because they do not cause as much tissue damage (CNS hits excluded).  Bullet choice is a compromise, and IMO should be based on the "worst" case shot you'll take.  If you refuse to take anything but the perfect broadside shot, then the lighter bullets will be a good choice.  If you will likely take about any shot presented, then the heavier bullet will be better insurance.

[tom barthel]

Hi Jeff223.  I am working on a load right now using Beartooth 280gr gc hardcast wide flat point. I will be using 32gr of 296 and a winchester large rifle primer. Can you tell me what your TC reloading data says about this load? I dont have any loading data to look at. I would expect between 1800fps and 1900fps with a sixteen inch barrel. I dont want to play around with a lot of diffrent bullets so I am looking at just heavy hardcast bullets. Once I get the accuracy I think I should have I will call it good. I would appreciate any data you would share. For example what is a MAX charge of 296 for a 300gr. What is a Max charge of 296 for a 270gr slug and so on.  Your reamer was mailed today. You should have it on monday. Thanks for its use. There is a check included in the package. I started with the Beartooth 280 wfn gc at the recomendation of the guys at Beartooth. They will arive in a couple of weeks. Just about the time I get my gun back from the shop. I will let you know how it shoots. I will be using bullets sized .432   My gunsmith slugged my barrel a couple of days ago and said he is showing .435 for my barrel. I have never heard of anyone getting that big of a measurment when they slugged there bores.
I dont know if he is just off with his measurment or if his method of slugging is suspect.  Is there anyone out there who can clear this up? These barrels are hammer forged on a mandrel and I cant believe a barrel could come out of the shop that much over sized.  I will recheck the bore diamiter when I get the rifle home. Never done it before but I must know. Thanks for passing me your TC load data.
Kelly

A very good way to slug your barrel is to use a hollow type fishing sinker.  Drop it into the breach end and use a wooden dowel to drive it through.  After doing this use a micrometer or caliper to measure the slug.  This method will show the minimum size of your bore.  If you don't have the measuring instruments, be careful not to damage the slugs and take them to someone who has the measuring tools.  It's not likely a .435 bore would accurately shoot a .429 bullet.

Take care and God bless.

Tom

[ONE HOLE 4570]

.429 Do not shoot well out of my .432 barrel the 430's go better but will try some .432 cast one of these days

I did a sinker check from both end both .432
But for previous posters they can be made to shoot :lol:

[aulrich]

It's great to see a plan come together.

For what it's worth I have killed deer with both the Hornady 265 fp and 300 xtp. out of my muzzloader, I found them both a touch hard out of my gun, but the extra fps that you get over me could be just the ticket.  For me and my muzzloader I think the next i'll try is the 240 xtp or a medium hard cast fp.

[cwlongshot]

I absolutely agree and cannot stress this enough, stay away from hollow points for shooting deer !! For big game, Soft points are the way to go. The HORNADY XTP is the exception, it works well on game. I have shot a couple deer with the MAG version in my 45 COLT from rifles with good results. But by and large, stay away from HP bullets for shooting big game.

Hollow points are designed to expand rapidly and stay inside the target. This dosent even take into consideration your caliber is driving these bullets at faster velocities!! They are intended for personal protection. There is a umber of calibers that this is very important for. Yours is one as is the 357 Max the 357 herrett, the super mags by dan wesson are also right there with your 445. These are all basically, hot rodded pistol calibers. So most bullets are too lightly constructed for humane performance on game.

The 270 GD is my favorite, but the 265 has LONG been THE bullet for the 444 Marlin. Remington made a BIG BOO BOO when they choose the 240 SP over the  vastly superior 265 grainer. Any 240 SP would be the lightest bullet I would use.

CW