Author Topic: Flashover????  (Read 803 times)

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Offline qajaq59

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Flashover????
« on: November 18, 2005, 05:40:24 AM »
I used grease over the the ball for years and recently switched to the wads with no problem. However, while I have heard about flashover forever, I've never seen it happen, nor do I know anyone that has.

What exactly does happen if all cylinders go off at once? Do you lose a hand, or is it just noise and smoke? And where do the pieces of ball that make it out of the cylinders end up going?

Offline unspellable

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chainfires
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2005, 07:44:19 AM »
I've had a chainfire.  It's usually one or two extra chambers going off.  usually a lot of ruckus and scares your pants off but no real harm.  It may ding up the frame in front of the cylinder.  That's not to say that it couldn't be worse on rare occasion.  Always wear shooting glasses.  My great grand father lost an eye shooting a revolver.

Offline unspellable

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chainfires, PS
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2005, 07:48:34 AM »
More chainfires occur because of flash over at the rear of the cylinder than the front.  Make sure your caps fit properly.  If a cap falls off a following unfired chamber, stop and replace it.

Offline qajaq59

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Flashover????
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2005, 10:10:49 AM »
Thanks Guys, And the missing cap setting off a chainfire does seem to be very logical. I'll keep an eye on that.

Offline hogship

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Flashover????
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2005, 12:37:23 PM »
Didn't the "old boys" who used these C+B revolvers just pour the powder, stuff the ball, cap.....and go?

I wonder how often they experienced chain fires....?

hog
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Offline Singing Bear

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Flashover????
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2005, 02:02:38 PM »
All the chainfires I've had were from the front due to out of round chamber mouths.   Seating a ball would yield a lead ring, but once seated there were gaps between the chamber walls and the balls.  Using larger balls will not help.  I was told that the older guns' chambers were slightly tapered so the balls would get squeezed into the chambers and give a good seal.  Modern chambers are straight so if the chamber itself is out of round, a ball will never obturate enough to give a good seal.  I've never measure mine.  I just stuffed a dry or lubed wad under the ball and the problem went away.  :wink:
Singing Bear

Offline Gatofeo

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Flashover????
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2005, 05:39:40 PM »
Singing Bear:
I too have heard that the original guns had tapered chambers. However, I've never seen anyone offer evidence of this, through chamber casts or measurements. Be interesting if someone with original cap and balls could do this.

I'm not one of those who believes that flashover begins at the front --- unless the chamber is out-of-round, which I believe is a rare defect.
Back in the early 70s I had a multi-ignition occur on two separate occasions with my cheap, brass-framed, Italian-made copy of the 1851 Navy in .44 caliber.
In the first incident, the chamber in line with the barrel went off, as planned. However, the chamber to the right of it and directly below it also went off. Three chambers are once!
It was immediately apparent that something out of the ordinary had happened because the blast and recoil were so much greater.
The ball in the chamber to the right of the barrel went flying off God knows where. The ball at 6 o'clock rammed into the rammer and stopped. No damage, though.

Sometime later, the same thing happened. This time, the ball damaged the rammer. I gave the gun to a gunsmith friend for parts.

The load was with DuPont black powder, .451 inch ball and Crisco smeared over the ball. Caps were just placed on the nipples, without being pinched into an oblong shape so they'd cling to the nipple.
That's how I loaded it back then, but no more.

Today, I still use black powder but I use a larger ball of .454 or 457 inch in my .44 revolvers, and .380 inch in my .36-calibers. I use a well-lubricated felt wad between ball and powder and rarely use lubricant over the ball. Caps are matched as close as possible to the nipple, but still pinched into an oblong size so they don't fall off or are jarred off from recoil.
Since adopting this loading procedure, I've never had another multi-ignition incident.

Colt's old instructions don't mention a lubricant or lubricated wad but it is known that soldiers and frontiersmen sometimes dripped candlle wax or beeswax over the seated ball and capped nipple to make the loads water-resistant. I suspect that the wax over the ball helped lubricate it too. Whether it prevented chain-fires from flashover at the front, I doubt.
Unless the chambers are out-of-round, I just don't see how the flash can get past a tightly seated ball clinging to every surface of the chamber.
But an out of round chamber? Yeah, I can see that.
Trouble is, I've never seen an out of round chamber. I'm sure they exist because tools can get out of alignment or chatter at the factory; I've just never seen one.
For my money, multi-ignitions or chain fires begin at the rear, when a cap is loose or absent from a charge.
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline Shorty

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Flashover????
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2005, 11:18:10 AM »
I don't know about originals, but the 1851 Navy Arms that I bought in '67 has tapered chambers.  I only discovered that when, after letting it get a little corroded, I tried to run a reamer into it just to burnish it.  It's a great feature.  My newer Pieta 1860 has straight chambers and once the ball is swaged into the mouth there isn't much holding it there.

Offline Singing Bear

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Flashover????
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2005, 07:09:23 PM »
Gato, you mentioned that your gun was from the 70's.  The guns I've had problems with were ASM's 51's and 60's and one Pietta 60 of older vintage.  Don't know exactly when, but the ASM's came from Cabela's in Navy Arms boxes and I know Cabelas's stopped selling these quite awhile ago.  The Pietta was bought used off the Wire Classifieds and can't tell it's age.

I've not had any chainfire problems from front or back with newer made guns.

My chainfires were simply second or third impulses after the intended charge was lit off and only raised a couple of eyebrows as it was hardly noticeable by the posse behind me.  Only the RO and myself looked at each other kinda funny like.  :)

I ran a flashlight test on my bad cylinders and one on a cylinder I can use paper cartridges without wads or lube.

I removed all the nipples from the cylinders and seated balls in each chamber.  While looking through the nipple holes, I held the mouths to a minimag flashlight.  The bad cylinders showed a good amount of light coming around gaps between the balls and chamber walls.  Large gaps. :shock:  The use of dry or lubed wads stopped the problem, but I couldn't use my "tear'n'pour" paper cartridges with these guns as I don't use wads or lubes with these.  Having to stuff wads with paper cartridges kind of defeats the purpose for quicker loading at matches so these guns are simply loaded with loose components and I just take my sweet time about it.  :lol:

The good cylinder showed all dark with absolutely no light coming around the ball whatsoever.   I got 6 pairs of matching calibers and guns like this and can use my TNP cartridges with no problems.  You'd think I should just get rid of the problem guns, which is only 2 pairs...NOT.  :lol:
Singing Bear