Author Topic: 7.62x54R hunting ammo accuracy  (Read 2108 times)

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Offline lostsniper308

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7.62x54R hunting ammo accuracy
« on: November 17, 2005, 09:15:11 AM »
Any of you with M91-30's how well does Winchester 180gr 7.62R SPs shoot in your rifles.
B Co. 1-22Inf 1st BCT 4th Infantry Division
OIF 08-09 out of the army now

Offline Robert357

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Not bad accuracy.
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2005, 10:05:25 AM »
Using 50+ year old eyes and iron sights on a 1939 Tula MN 1891/30, I got 10 shot groups of between 2 to 3 inches at 100 yards from a rest using the Winchester hunting ammo (not the FMJ).  I did this to acquire reloadable brass (4 boxes worth)  prior to buying a bunch of Graf & Sons unprimed brass.   I use to call it a "less than minute of fist" rifle at 100 yards.

I later bought a Lyman thing that fits on my glasses and in bright sunlight that allows for better focus and that dropped my groups by about 1/2 inch or so. to about 2 to 2.5 inch groups at 100 yards.  

I have been impressed that once an MN1891/30 has had the front sight adjusted upward so you can zero it at 100 yards with a 6:00 o'clock hold, that it is a pretty impressive hunting rifle for the price.  

Reloading for the 7.62x54R cartridge has also been eye opening.  If you reload and look for .303 British Bullets, you can find enough variation in bullet weights and jacketing that the round can used to do just about anything that a .308 Winchester will do as far as hunting.  

In my book the MN 1891/30 rifle is one heck of a bargin as long as you don't need to try to modify it too much.  If you want a custom stock, a fancy scope mount, a special trigger, a bent bolt, etc. I would start with something else, like a used like a Mauser, Enfield, or Springfield, as you find a lot more optional equipment and lower prices for the options.

My Winchester Model 70 30-06 scoped featherweight, my scoped Marlin 30-30 Model 336, and my peep sighted Arisaka Type 99 that was customized by the previous owner are more accurate, but they all cost me a lot more than $79.

Offline lostsniper308

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7.62x54R hunting ammo accuracy
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2005, 11:02:37 AM »
well good accuracy then. That's all i needed but since you went on about custominzations i tell my brilliant project :grin:
ok take a MN91-30 put a side SVD mount from interordanance, then put a Russian 4x24 or 6x42 on with a sniper bent bolt and thats my project yet to officially start.
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OIF 08-09 out of the army now

Offline Mikey

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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2005, 01:04:27 PM »
I was able to duplicate Robert357's groups with Sellier and Bellot hunting soft points - 180s, I think.  This was from a M44.  HTH.  Mikey.

Offline lostsniper308

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7.62x54R hunting ammo accuracy
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2005, 03:21:37 PM »
so the ammo is accurate out to at least 200yrds but lets see what the rifle 'thinks' tomarrow. the targets are cheap Bud and Miller so a bad group could be from not seeing the target well, which i suffer from.
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Offline Maryland Hunter

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7.62x54R hunting ammo accuracy
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2005, 03:11:27 PM »
lostsniper308,
Please read my post in the handloading section, on my 7.62X54R range results for today.

MH

Offline myarmor

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7.62x54R hunting ammo accuracy
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2005, 05:51:12 PM »
I am not trying to spread bad propaganda about the S&B/Win 180gr 7.62x54R SP bullets, but I had a really bad experiance with them last year. Shot a buck at 100yards with my Finn M39, perfect broadside shot. a good shot, exploding the heart. He ran about 30yards, then fell dead. After we took him home and started butchering him and skinning, I found that the bullet had seperated. It literally crammed feces under muscle tissue. Yes it was gross, and I lost a LOT of meat because of it. Never seen anything like it.
Just my experiance with it. It wasn't pretty, but yes it did the job.
Perhaps I am the exception, and it won't happen to the next guy. But I won't hunt with them again.
-Aaron

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2005, 06:31:00 PM »
Since the heart is ahead of the stomach and bowel and you shot the deer broadside how could you get feces??? Besides that the liver is behind the heart before the stomach. It does not seem possible to me unless you shot it in the rear and the bullet came all the way through to the front. Or you shot it at a angle and it went through the guts to get to the heart but no way if you shot the heart perfect broadside you would get feces????

Here is a link for a deer vitals chart

http://home.mn.rr.com/deerfever/Anatomy.html
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline myarmor

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7.62x54R hunting ammo accuracy
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2005, 05:55:01 AM »
Like I said, I never seen anything like that either and it doesn't make sense. But it happened, and it was gross :x The left ham was completely ruined.
 My guess is that when the bullet shot through the rib, it seperated and most all of it went in and exploded the heart, but a piece changed direction and hit the gut. Like shrapnel.
I can't explain it, it was very strange, and it was broad side, I held a bead on him for a good 30-45 sec, he started to put his head down...lifted his left front hoof as to step forward, and I took the shot. Left a HUGE blood spot and trail.

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2005, 07:09:51 AM »
I have shot a lot of deer and no way have  I ever seen One bullet do that kind of damage even with it breaking apart but I suppose it could happen. Hard to believe if it hit the heart and it started separating that it would go completely back to destroy a hind quarter.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline myarmor

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« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2005, 08:03:10 PM »
I have no clue how it happened or the odds of such :? .
Talking about it so much now, makes me thinking of pulling the Finn M39 back out and try it again to see what happens.
It did the trick, and killed what I was after thats for sure. Perhaps it was a freck coincidence?
If I was going to go hunting with one of my Mosins, these would be a decent choice. Then again there isn't a whole lot of choices for factory hunting loads for our beloved 7.62x54R. The Wolfs and Brown Bear stuff is 200gr or so. Now your talking Elk loads :) Little over kill in my opinion for a whitetail, but to each his own.
No doubt about it though, the 7.62x54R is a most capable round, and has been a favorite of the Russkies ever sense it was invented. I do love shooting them.

 Don't get me wrong, the S&B/Win shot great in my M39. Then again so does the surplus Czech Silver Tips. But I have heard that the Finns do like heavier grain of bullets.

Offline jh45gun

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7.62x54R hunting ammo accuracy
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2005, 09:13:05 PM »
Well moot point for me anyway as I just sold my two Mosins and my Turk Mauser as they could not even come close to my Swede Mauser and K31 for accuracy. In fact I have owned and shot 3 turks and non of them shot anything special. Like the man said only accurate rifles are interesting and since I had a Mod 91 and a Pole 44 they were ok but nothing special in the accuracy dept. Now if I had had a Finn that shot well I may have kept it.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline myarmor

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« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2005, 07:25:58 AM »
You got to love those Swedes and K31s :agree: Excellent quality.

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2005, 01:50:59 PM »
Yep that is why I kept them two. Accuarate and well built.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2005, 12:44:48 AM »
The Finnish mosins are good rifles too.  Has anyone checked the prices on them lately?

Your description of the wounds almost sounds like it was shot twice? maybe some hit it before you shot it? Or a part of the bullet jacket fragged? I had a blackbear once that was shot in the butt too. I took out what looked like a perfect 30cal RN bullet when i sliced the meat.

Offline hylander

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« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2005, 04:19:23 PM »
Here is my 1939 Tula


And here is how she shoot's with Win. The small holes are form my Mini-14
Failure is not an option
Placer County, Calif.

Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2005, 06:40:19 AM »
hylander thats a purdy one you have there.

One of the worlds best snipers with the highest kills used a Finnish M27 Mosin with no scope?

I had a brother who would shoot a rifle just once to see where it hit then used kentucy windage to put everything in the ten ring after that. He was what you would call a natural born shooter.  Its not the rifle by itself thats accurate its the shooter and how much he knows his weapon too. The shooter can make adjustments for an inaccurate rifle to make it shoot good using "kentucky windage" is a fine example of that.  Its the rifle plus if we do our part that makes a rifle accurate.

Offline myarmor

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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2005, 12:01:56 PM »
I suppose it is possibile that someone shot him before I did, but I highly doubt it. He was moving and behaving like normal.
Here is what I think it might have been attributed to.

In the Speer Manuel #13 it talks about their Hot-Cor bullets, and the difference in how they are made as compared to some cheap hunting bullets-yes an obvious plug for their product, but still a piece of interesting info was mentioned.
Talking about how bullets break up during expansion, and how conventional bullets are made. By inserting a cold lead core into a jacket.  Some manufactures will coat a bullet to handle smooth operations with machinery.And those that if not coated will create a lead oxide, both can allow core and jacket slippage during expansion. Causeing the core to slide forward during expansion feeding lead into the mushrooming nose.

I don't know how exactly S&B makes their bullets, but this discription sounded viable to me as a possibility.
-Aaron

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2005, 03:26:48 PM »
I suppose anything is possible but I am still having a hard time buying the fact that a piece of a slug will travel that far sideways into a animal and do that much damage. I have shot deer from end to end going through the guts and never had that happen with a whole bullet so I find it hard to believe that a part of a bullet would do that.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline grendel

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7.62x54R hunting ammo accuracy
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2005, 06:32:11 PM »
Years ago I shot a small Blacktail buck with a 257Roberts.  At this time I can not recall what the load was but it was probably a 100g HP.  I do recall finding the bullet under the skin about 8 inches aft of the entrance.  Bullet entered in through the shoulder, shattering it, took out at least one lung but turned inside the deer and came to rest under the skin on the same side that it had entered on.  Probably my fault for using the wrong bullet.  But they were accurate and out of the 4 or 5  deer I shot with that rifle and load everyone died in their tracks.
 
Dam I wish I still had that rifle.  As Prime Minister Winston Churchill said at the graduation address.  ""Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, sell a gun. Never sell a gun. Never sell a gun. Never sell a gun." (note that this speech is often mis-quoted.)
Grendel

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Offline rangerruck

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« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2005, 05:08:13 PM »
i saw at the last housotn gun shwo about six diff manfgrs making the 762x 54 round. even wolf makes a 180 grn and a 200 grn both in steel round and match brass round. also siver bear, brown bear, olympic, and some other s.

Offline Steve P

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« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2005, 06:09:17 PM »
I have shot a lot of the S&B as I found them $6 a box if purchased by the case a few years ago.  With my model 44s, 59s, and 91s, I can break up clay targets at 100 yards and keep hitting pieces as long as I can see them.  They shoot plenty good enough for deer out to 200 yards.

Steve   :D
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Offline dawei

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7.62x54R hunting ammo accuracy
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2005, 04:54:09 AM »
Quote from: myarmor
I am not trying to spread bad propaganda about the S&B/Win 180gr 7.62x54R SP bullets, but I had a really bad experiance with them last year. Shot a buck at 100yards with my Finn M39, perfect broadside shot. a good shot, exploding the heart. He ran about 30yards, then fell dead. After we took him home and started butchering him and skinning, I found that the bullet had seperated. It literally crammed feces under muscle tissue. Yes it was gross, and I lost a LOT of meat because of it. Never seen anything like it.
Just my experiance with it. It wasn't pretty, but yes it did the job.
Perhaps I am the exception, and it won't happen to the next guy. But I won't hunt with them again.
-Aaron


Not trying to critisize your decision; just tying to understand................

You're never going to hunt with a 7.62x54R again; or just not use that particular brand of ammo?

Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2005, 05:08:21 PM »
I have had good results with my 30-06 with speer 30cal magnum mag tip bullets in both accuracy and ballastic results since the 70's if it ain't broke why change it.  They did just blow apart leaving a gray powder that was coned shaped in the wet sand and the jacket was opened up like a piece of flat shrapnel behind the gray powder.(lead)  Its a round that stops things dead in its tracks and does damage. I never tried them in a 7,62x54 yet.  I mainly use the Russian Barnaul 204gr SP if i hunt with them. At $5 a box its tough to pass them up.

Offline myarmor

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« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2005, 05:36:32 PM »
My apologizes to lostsniper308 if I have high jacked your topic, I in no way intended to, just relating my experiance with the ammo on topic.
I still plan on hunting with the old Finn. She shoots too good not to.
I am a big fan of the 7.62x54R. It's very powerful and does planty of damage, just as the 30-06 does. I just don't plan on using this ammo for my hunts. Again, perhaps my situation was a freak coincidence. I admit it is hard to swallow. But I believe there are other brands that would do just as good if not better-especially by handloads. Just kinda hard to justify it unless you really are into the old Ruskie...It is a great round :wink: .

Offline Archblackmage

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« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2005, 06:12:47 PM »
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/mosinscoutrifle/index.asp

i like this setup for the mosin m-44 for the 7.62X54R
Andrew S. DeCecco

Offline rangerruck

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« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2005, 09:29:16 PM »
took a brand new(?) msoin tanker carbine, and broke it in the normal way. Zeroed with the wolf 150 steel grainers.  tried several different brands of ammo from 147 gr  to 205  gr.  used no old milsurp ammo, it was all new manfgr.  the best so far even though i did not get to test out the Olympic, was wolf brass match  185 grn.  using sandbags, I was hitting under two inch groups at 100 yds, open sights.  with the normal terrible standard rear leaf sight, and jello notch in it.  i've gotta do something about that rear notch!