Sticking Cases Again:

[Duce]

People: Was thinking while out on the deer stand about the case sticking in my .270. Nearly anything will break them loose, just dropping a 16 penny finish nail down the muzzle will do it. The prevalence of it in rimless cases got me to wondering. The difference between rimmed and rimless is that in the rimless models the ejector is not only spring loaded back but also up so that it will slip under the rim. My thought was, could it be that in some rifles, could the spring lifting be to strong, binding the case in the chamber? Any Thoughts:  :? <>< Duce:

[trotterlg]

I think that rimmed cartridges are just normally low pressure rounds so do not have the sticking problems the high pressure ones have.  A .270 is getting up there in the pressure ranges.  Larry

[safetysheriff]

i think it's more dirt/grease/fouling.   i start the cleaning at times with straight marvel mystery oil so that the napthenic compounds in it can break down the powder/lubricant fouling.   no, i don't shoot a wet/oily chamber, but i think it's possible for residues off the brass or the previous cleaning/wiping of the rifle to still allow a very small amount of oil to make problems.    my finish cleaning is done with marvel mystery oil mixed with hoppe's #9 or rislone engine cleaner mixed with hoppe's #9.     (i do not mix either engine additive with any of the stronger copper solvents that contain more ammonia in them) i let the bronze brush help with removing the metal fouling.  

i also use nickel-plated brass in some calibers and believe it makes it easier to get the brass out of the chamber.  

i'm guessing that you don't make a habit of dropping any kind of nail down the bore to release a piece of brass.......since you could do it just as easily with a softer/smoother piece of aluminum cleaning rod.

take care, duce,

ss'

[Duce]

SS: I don't make a habit of using a nail [steel to steel] but was all I had. Take Care:  :-) <>< Duce:

[safetysheriff]

duce'

no insult intended about the nail; but i am trained to not make assumptions.  sometimes i may take it too far.   you didn't sound upset, but i'm thinking that maybe you didn't need any admonition at all......

do you shoot double-base powders with nitroglycerine in them?   i know that they really dirty up the firearms that i use compared to the single-base stuff.    i have, for instance, loaded imr 4320 in a .30-06 and seen the brass and rifle develop Very Little powder fouling, while the double-based wc-846 i usually use in the .223 and the .308 are very dirty.   i try to keep up with the powder fouling every time i'm done shooting.   i may not use a brush as much as some other guys do, but i do get the powder fouling out.   some of the long-range/match shooters are using the General Motors product that breaks down carbon to start the cleaning process with their rifles.   i'm going to stick to marvel mystery oil because it's so effective for me; but it does speak to the fact that carbon is a problem that can be dealt with.  

just a thought,

ss'

[Duce]

SS: No offense taken, didn't like dropping that nail down that barrel, but didn't have my range box, just checking zero.
What set me a wondering is the fact that something weighing no more than 1/2 oz. has enough momentum to break the case loose? :? <>< Duce:

[Chainsaw]

duce, That is precisely why I don't have my .308 and 06 at this time as all my rifles are "working" rifles and I would just cringe at the thought of a nice whitetail stumbling off if indeed a follow-up shot was needed to dispatch that animal. I do still have two 30-30 handi's that never had a problem with case sticking.(lower pressure) I would be interested in seeing what would happen with a 307 Winchester round in a handi. I think deadeye had one but it was a modified 308. I would buy such a rifle if it had the 30-30 quarter moon type 30-30 ejector.............Chainsaw

[1911crazy]

On one of my old military bolt action rifles the cases would stick too. I cleaned the chamber to make sure it was free of all dirt and dry and they still stuck. I ended up putting oil in the chamber and wiping it out leaving a very slight oil film on the chamber walls and my cases don't stick any more.  Its worth a shot.  If the light oil film does it then i would get a moly lube and burnish it into the chamber walls and then wipe it out. The moly will work into the small pores of the metal and in the chamber it will act as a friction free release agent so the cases will never stick again. The only other thing i have heard of doing is to polish the chamber with a chamber hone.

[Fred M]

D-man.

It is the worse thing you can do, to lube a chamber. A chamber has to be smooth and dry no lube, no Moly for sure. There is a long winded explanation for that and I am not going into it. Just take my word for it, please. It can be dangerous.

[Good Keen Man]

I'm with Fred M - the chamber has to be clean as a whistle. Wrap a few cotton strips around the brass brush and a few quick stabs seems to work. GKM

[Duce]

Folks: When I was a little more active as a gunsmith, cambering rifles, I was taught that the shoulder and neck area should be left as reamed to keep case growth to a minimum. That is why with sticking cases, look at the at the ejector and the raceway being rough first, rather than going after the chamber with the filtz, that can come later.  Most of us are not looking at hot loads, mostly factory, and if you stay within published loads, pressure shouldn't be a problem.  I've seen remingchester??? winningtons where the ejector claw tore through the rim, that's a stuck case. With Handi's being able to be cleared with nothing more than a cleaning rod section being dropped down the muzzle, the problem is more one of mechanics/geometry than one of chamber and brass, unless of coarse your brass is older than dirt. One question I have is the process of sinister steel [powder], is it molded under pressure and baked??? explaining my ejector being somewhat warped. Thanks Guys:   <>< Duce:

[safetysheriff]

duce'

do a 'search' on the web for sintered metal and you should find some info' re; the ways that gears, for example, are made from sintered metal that is heated and then forged i guess would be the word.

the camshaft timing gears in many/most engines (the metal gear on the crankshaft itself, not the aluminum and nylon gear seen on so many cams) are made from sintered metal.   it is surprising how strong such materials can be.

take care,

ss'

[Fred M]

Sintered metal also called PM (powdered metallurgy) Molten liquid steel alloy is atomized with a high pressure jet of nitrogen or similar gas.

The powder is then processed by HIP (hot isostatic pressing)

I recently bought a new  folding hunting knife designed by Wayne Goodard it is made from high quality sintered steel called VG 10 made in Japan. This knife field dressed three deer and a moose without any sharpening or honing. It is still as sharp as when I got it I never touched the edge. Great knife, best I ever had.

Crucible also makes a knife steel called S30V similar to the VG10 also it is said it is not quite as good as VG10.

[aulrich]

One other thing to consider, I had a 243 that would stick brass, but the sticking was basicall eliminated when I paid more attention to the brass.  I had two problems, one was some crap "once fired" that I had bought, this brass even sized and trimmed would stick, I did a cull of brass by chambering every case that I had (just empty brass not loaded). I found that certain head stamps jus would not resize properly therfore they would stick. I got rid of those and 75% of the sticking went away. And with the rest of the brass I just had to make sure that the resize die properly bottomed out.  It ended up I would run the case in once back out part way and hit it again.

Once I did those 2 things the sticking basically dissapeared (then I sold it)

BTW I did add the manual notch like Fred, it made dealing with a stuck case way quicker.