.444 and 180 gr. cast bullets

[VTDW]

Just a question.

Anyone know about loading a .444 with 180 gr. or so cast bullets? If so, was the hunting accuracy there and where can I find the bullets?

Thanks,

Dave  

[leverfan]

What were you planning to hunt with 180 grain slugs?  A full power load, according to Vihta Vuori's pamphlet, pushes a 180 grain slug over 2700 fps.  I don't know of any designed for those velocities, so there should be an impressive amount of leading with most commercial bullets.  Custom casting, and careful loading, might cut back on the leading.  Or, you could down load to avoid leading.

[VTDW]

Thanks Leverfan,

I am hunting hogs and am a new reloader.  I do not know much at all about cast bullets.  I have found some on the net but no gas checks.  I know that, or rather think the pistol bullets are not made for those velocities but thought cast might be.  I sort of figured that leading could be a big problem for me at those kind of velocities.

You know how the mind is always working. :lol:  I shoot the 265 gr Hornady with great results but was thinking about a much lighter bullet and increasing the velocity for greater range and flatter trajectory.

Dave

[Mikey]

The 444 can probably be loaded down to 44 mag velocities or lower with 180 gn cast slugs.  The only data I have for cast near (215 gn) that weight shows loads in the 1600'/sec range.  Yes indeed the Vit manual lists a 2700'/sec load with the 180 gn jacketed slug but I hope you're not pelt hunting for varmit with that (lol).  Also, depending on your particular rifle, its barrelling and bore diameter, bullets in that weight range may not stabalize enought to give you any accuracy.  HTH.  Mikey.

[leverfan]

Mikey, you're right, the 444 can definitely be loaded down to 44 mag velocity, but that doesn't sound like what VTDW has in mind.  

In a nutshell, though, if you want a 2700 fps load, get a 30-06 with 180 grain bullets, not a 444 with 180 grain bullets.  They aren't liable to perform the way you'd like on hogs.  For medium/large game, the 444 is great, especially with 240 grain bullets and up, clear up to 330 grains or more.  I can keep a 444 clanging a 10" gong at 200 yards with a peep sight, shooting from a sitting position.  That's with handloads using 265 grain or heavier slugs, and that's flat shooting enough.

The light for caliber 180 grain flatnosed slugs that you'd have to choose from would have low ballistic coefficients, so they'd shed that extra velocity quickly.  You might stretch your range, but not by as much as you'd think.  With their low sectional density, penetration of the 180 grain slugs won't match that of heavier slugs, even if the 180 grainers hold together on impact.  Unless your alloy is chosen carefully, they may not hold together very well on close range shots.  

Of course, 180 grain .430" jacketed slugs aren't designed for impacts at those high velocities.  A lot of 180 grain bullets are actually designed for the lower impact velocities possible with the 44 Special, and start coming apart when they impact over 1400 fps.

I'd recommend enjoying the 444 for what it is, rather than trying to make it work like a .30-06.

[VTDW]

Thanks Guys,

I am hunting hogs and am also a new reloader. I do not know much at all about cast bullets. I know that, or rather think the jacketed pistol bullets are not made for those velocities but thought cast might be. I sort of figured that leading could be a big problem for me at those kind of velocities. I also should have said I needed gas checks.

You know how the mind is always working. I shoot the 265 gr Hornady with great results but was thinking about a much lighter bullet and increasing the velocity for greater range and flatter trajectory. I suppose I just need to learn to shoot my 444's at 200 yd like Ranch Dog has hinted to me.   :oops:  :oops:

I appreciate the information from the experienced.

Thanks again,

Dave

[leverfan]

Dave, my advice would be to go ahead and stick with that 265 grain Hornady.  You can easily load it up to 2200 fps or a bit more without stressing things using the right powders.  Sighted in a few inches high at 100 yards, you'll only be a couple of inches low at 200 yards.  You won't have to correct for elevation until you reach out past 225 yards or more, depending on the size of your target.  That means you shouldn't have any trouble shooting it out to 200 yards, despite what you may have heard to the contrary.  The 444 only shoots like a rainbow if you try to reach out past 250 yards.

Now, let's take a look at a typical 180 grain, .430" flat nosed bullet.  It's going to have a ballistic coefficient that's a dismal .11 or so.  Launch it at 2700 fps, and it's dropped all the way down to 1950 fps by 100 yards, and it's dragging along at 1351 fps by 200 yards.  You'll have to sight in 4" high in order to get a 200 yard zero.  That's exactly 0.7" flatter at 100 yards than a 265 grain Hornady launched at 2200 fps.

That 265 grain pill will be going 100 fps faster at 200 yards, despite being 500 fps slower at the muzzle! :shock:

You gain zip, zero, zilch, and just a touch of nada by loading a 444 with light for caliber bullets.  It's the same trajectory, but with a smaller, less effective bullet.  The striking energy will be a joke compared to the heavier slug.

I'll admit, I was surprised myself to see just how crappy the 180 grain flat nose bullet did when I punched the numbers into a ballistic calculator.