Author Topic: 6.5 Swede not expanding? (Read 1666 times)

jh45gun · « **on:** November 05, 2005, 03:40:25 PM »

Got a relative that hunts with a 6.5 swede and he has shot Remington factory 140 grain and Winchester super x factory 140 grain and claims he is getting no expansion on the deer he has shot. bullet hole in is the same out one small hole. Any ideas? He loves the gun a converted swede and is happy with the accuracy just not the bullet results. I will be useing my swede this year and am almost hesitant after talking to him. I will be shooting Hornady 140 grain bullets handloaded with 4064 at 2400 fps according to the Hornady guide using 35.1 grains of powder. Any suggestions why his factory ammo is not expanding? I hope I have better luck with my handloads.

Slamfire · « **Reply #1 on:** November 05, 2005, 05:10:30 PM »

I can't explain it unless he is shootin' them in the shoulder, and the bullet is comin' apart!

jh45gun · « **Reply #2 on:** November 05, 2005, 10:08:56 PM »

Nope he is getting complete pass through and the holes look the same in and out. If the bullet was coming apart he would find it and fragments.

TNrifleman · « **Reply #3 on:** November 06, 2005, 01:50:44 AM »

Both my son and I have hunted with 6.5x55 rifles for years. The 125 and 140 grain Nosler Partitions have worked beautifully. The Remington 140s have also worked well. We have not had the problem you describe. Is your friend's ammo factory or a handload? Where was this deer hit? If he was able to examine the entrance and exit holes, I'll assume the deer was dead. What was the problem again? :?

Gregory · « **Reply #4 on:** November 06, 2005, 02:05:28 AM »

I'd set some gallon milk jugs filled with water at the ranges he's been shooting and see how the bullet performs on them. A deer's skin is elastic to some degree and maybe the exit wound just looks small. What kind of internal damage was done?

Buckfever · « **Reply #5 on:** November 06, 2005, 02:33:04 AM »

I have a 6.5 by 55 and I shoot 140gr. Nosler Partitions. They work great but I also thought that the bullet didin't expand the first time. Small entrance and exit hole. A lot of internal damage and so did the bullet work, Yes!! The caliber has a lot of shoot thru ability and sometimes we think we need a huge exit hole because of the balistic tips. I have shot 2 deer with it and they both went no more than 3 steps. Small entry and exit holes but that didn't mean the bullet didin't do it's job.

Mr. Hornady used to say if the deer is on the ground how has the bullet failed? I think we all are victims of the sell you somthing hype. I know that was my case. Buckfever

Slamfire · « **Reply #6 on:** November 06, 2005, 06:39:02 AM »

What happens with Partitions is that the front end expands violently, and after the lead is gone the jacket folds back to the partition, and the rear half travels on through. Bonded and locked cores often don't exit, the expanded lead stretchs but doesn't penetrate the flexible hide on the off side. You usually can find them right up against the skin.

Ramrod · « **Reply #7 on:** November 06, 2005, 11:01:10 AM »

The holes in the hide tell very little about the bullet performance, they only give an indication about how much blood will leak out. If the deer drops, a blood trail becomes a moot point.
Slamfire's assesment of "standard" bullets matches my own experiences with many "deer" caliber guns. And when a well-mushroomed bullet does exit a hide, it can, and often does leave a small hole. This does not mean the bullet did not expand, nor did it do considerable damage.
I know many folks have a pro cut their deer up for them, but they are missing out on alot of important info that way. I proccess all my own deer, and would suggest to anyone who is interested in observing bullet performance in the "real world" to do the same. Things get interesting once you get the hide off, and get downright bizzare, sometimes, when you start digging in.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 07, 2005, 11:38:54 AM »

Quote from: jh45gun

Got a relative that hunts with a 6.5 swede and he has shot Remington factory 140 grain and Winchester super x factory 140 grain and claims he is getting no expansion on the deer he has shot. bullet hole in is the same out one small hole. Any ideas? He loves the gun a converted swede and is happy with the accuracy just not the bullet results. I will be useing my swede this year and am almost hesitant after talking to him. I will be shooting Hornady 140 grain bullets handloaded with 4064 at 2400 fps according to the Hornady guide using 35.1 grains of powder. Any suggestions why his factory ammo is not expanding? I hope I have better luck with my handloads.

Hate to simplify it but are the deer dead?? :|
If so what's the problem? :roll:
Quite frankly if a bullet punches straight through the heart/lungs, halts their function and the deer goes down then all the better.
Less bloodshot meat, less mess and probably a more humane kill, not to say that sudden complete disintegration of primary internal organs is less humane.
There are bullets out there designed to expand more drastically.
I guess if he doesn't reload he'll have to put up with what's on offer from the factory.

Brithunter · « **Reply #9 on:** November 11, 2005, 10:45:32 AM »

Hi all,

I have not seen this problem with the 6.5x55 cartridge, however I did have a stalking (hunting) partner which complained about this. He was handloading and I think he was using some Premium Bonded bullet but not driving it hard enough :roll: and 2400fps for a 140 grn bullet seems slow to me, I would be looking for about 2600fps and yes I do have a converted Swedish Mauser and yes I have gotten more than 2500 with a 160 grn Hornady from it comfortably :wink:

The Speer 120 grn bullets works well in these Mausers, accurate and a good performing bullet on Deer. The Hornady 160 grn RN was excellent, pole axed the Roe Doe I shot with it but the bloodshot meat on the exit was excessive so I stopped using it, still have some loaded and would use it on large Deer like a Rutting Fallow Buck or Red Stag :lol:

lefty o · « **Reply #10 on:** November 11, 2005, 04:38:28 PM »

i shoot 140gr hornady SST's in mine, and they definately expand.

coopershooter · « **Reply #11 on:** November 13, 2005, 02:19:41 PM »

i have used both sierra game kings and nosler partitions, 140gr. with great results on hogs and deer, three each all one shot stops with all going all the way through. i like an exit hole! more blood on the ground!
none of the exit holes were big, but they sure were leaking!
the 6.5 is easy to shoot well, i think this along with great penatration, is why this round does so well. it does,n,t shred bullets like faster cartriges either. i once wrote into ross seyfried when he wrote for guns and ammo, to ask what primiem bullets to use in my mauser, for deer and hogs. his reply was that the swed had been a great game killer long before the super bullets came on the scene, and did it,s job fine with regular bullets.
good luck.

kevin.303 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 13, 2005, 08:01:21 PM »

i'veheard of this happening with cheap ammo like igman but not with the moe pricey factory ammo. the igman bullets are pretty crappy, this past spring a friend shot a black bear broadside at 75 yards with a 7.62x54R, busted a shoulder but it must have disentigrated, he searched for 3 days and never found no bear.

here in Manitoba deer seson opens at dawn tomorrow, and i'll be carrying a 6.5x55. i could not get my .30-40 Krag-Jorgesen shooting straight, so my gunsmith gratiously affered me the use of his 6.5x55 Norwegian Krag that i have coveted for a long time.he rebarreled it with new in the white M96 barrel cut back to 22 inches, modified a Boyd's US Krag sporter stock, and installed a S & K scope mount. all the metal work but the bolt body was given a deep hot blue and the bolt body was polished until it appears to be plated.it's topped off with a Leupold fixed 4 power and this thing is a tack driver. he also gave me a boxof reloads topped with 120 gr Nosler BT's. my past two years porduced no deer at all, but i think this will be the year i finally fill my tag for the first time.

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** November 17, 2005, 06:08:33 AM »

Size of hole in should be small always. Size of exit hole is not a factor of expansion so much as how fast it's going when it exits. Whether it expanded or didn't is determined by the internal damage and nothing else.

service rifleman1 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 21, 2005, 03:24:25 PM »

Hello there. I hunt with a 6.5 * 55 and have used mostly Winchester factory loads but I have taken deer with the Remington factory and remington core loct components. I have found the Winchester loads to be quite soft compared to the Remington factory stuff. I have a wide variety of 6.5 projectiles and will load for different types of game. I currently use a new Tikka Master Trapper rifle 6.5 *55 M695 rifle. I shot some handloads consisting of the Nosler Ballistic Tip 100 grain under CCI 200 primers and IMR 4350 44 grains and the accuracy is superb. I have loaded the Hornady 129, 140, and 160 grainers along with the Partition 125, and 140 grain slugs. The speer 140 grain hotcor is also highly recommended for the ballistics suitable for the Swede. To me this is one fine deer round and I have also dropped a Moose with a neck shot with Winchester Super X load. Regards

Buckfever · « **Reply #15 on:** November 21, 2005, 06:22:10 PM »

Sir what did you use the 100gr for and do you think it would work for Mule Deer. I have a T3 Tikka so the twist is probably the same. Any information would be great. Thanks Buckfever

service rifleman1 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 22, 2005, 04:21:53 AM »

Hello there. I have only used the Ballistic tips to sight in my new Tikka Whitetail rifle. I have been out hunting with the rifle only once and had not taken a shot at any game as yet. I would think that these bullets would be alright for mulies as long as the shot placement was through the ribs or in the neck head area and not on the shoulder bones. I am finished hunting mulies this season as the bucks are running pretty hard right now and the whitetail venison might seem to be less rank for the time being. If the shot placement were not ideal I might move up to 120 grain BT or the various partition offerings for good size deer like the Mulies. Regards

PS Charles Newton's 100 grains at 2800 fps in the .257 bore recommendations for deer sized game seem adequate to me in the .264 bore. I hope to take a deer with this combo and I will post the results.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 22, 2005, 03:56:43 PM »

My only concern with using 100gn .264" bullets is that the modern bullets are not necessarily constructed the way Charles Newton had his constructed.
100 grainers may well turn out to be more like varmint bullets than those suitable for deer.
Keep in mind that the success of the 6.5x55 in Europe lay in using heavy bullets at moderate speeds and having the penetration do the job.
Also, from what I seen, the 6.5 bullet construction per weight is much closer to 7mm bullets than .25 cal, which conversely seem closer to 6mm bullets.
I don't speak from experience but I'd be loading 140gn bullets for deer, much the same as I would a 7x57 or 7mm-08 and I wouldn't be using BTs.
A Partition would be much more the go.
Why be left with the worry of having to make your shot through the ribs.
Keep in mind that for bullets under .30 cal the Nosler BT have considerably lighter jackets.

service rifleman1 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 24, 2005, 05:05:09 AM »

The reason I prefer the heart lung shot through the ribs is to minimize meat loss damage. Many deer in this province are killed cleanly with small bore rifles with factory ammo that some may say is designed for "varmints". Weapons of choice bullets of choice, shot placement of choice. I have the partitions in 125 and 140 grains and indeed they are proven to be reliable game getters. The regular softpoints from the speer hot cor 140 or the Hornady 129 and 140 spirepoints and 160 grain round nose would also fit the bill nicely. I have all of these components and will load and test them in time. What I would like to do with the Ballistic Tip 100 ideally is use them on the Coyotes who chew my dog whenever they can, but if they work on deer then dead is still dead. Kind regards.

service rifleman1 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 24, 2005, 04:31:25 PM »

Hello there. I took a nice Whitetail today with one shot to the neck. I also load for a 6.5 * 54 Mannlicher cartridge chambering in my model 1904 Krag bolt action. The Hornady manual has data for this round with 100 grain bullets. I have only tried the starting loads for the ballistic tips.I was happy with the end resulttoday, however I think that I will stick to using heavier weight bullets like the ones mentioned earlier in the other post for the Swede mauser chambering. Regards and happy shooting and hunting to all.

kevin.303 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 24, 2005, 08:44:39 PM »

6.5x54 MS in a Krag? do tel, and share any pics you might have. never got to try the Krag on deer this year, but the 6.5x55 does cleanly decapitate jackrabbits. mmm hasenpfeffer.

service rifleman1 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 25, 2005, 03:41:29 AM »

I picked up this Krag for a less than $100 at Bashaw sports. It has been reblued but sports the original barrel. I lost the patch cord for the digital cam but I will pick up a replacement. Super smooth action on those Krags. I pinched the bejabers out of my hand on the sharp corner of the action as I closed the bolt but that was a lesson I only had to be taught one time

. The wood has been chopped down to sporter style but it is a genuine rifle and I will sure post the pics when I am able. It has a bead sight up front and a adjustable blade sporting notch at the rear. Very handy interesting action with the side opening mag, too cool for school action. The bore has seen alot of use and I was considering having it rebarrelled for the same round or even rebarrelling down to the .243 bore for some wildcat fun. Regards

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #22 on:** November 29, 2005, 06:44:38 PM »

Well we have a model 38 Hausq and it does a dany job on deer.Last one shot had a hole going in his back and out the far lung using Hornady's regular hunting bullet line.
The hole in looked about the same as the one going out I seen.
But boy inside sure took a beating.
Had we changed our minds after the shot , it was to late . the deer was dead before it hit the ground.
You don't need much for the 6.5x55 just place them in the killin' zone.
Great round.
Happy

nomosendero · « **Reply #23 on:** December 04, 2005, 03:53:14 PM »

I just cleaned (my job, she cooks it) a six point Whitetail that my wife
shot this morning. She has a sporterized Swedish Mauser & uses the
129 Grain Hornady Light Magnum load. The Deer was broadside, she shot
him in the shoulder & busted it, broke 2 ribs, did a # on the vitals, went
through the othet shoulder & stopped under the hide. I recovered the
bullet & I have not weighed it, but it is mushroomed well & probably
retained 50% or so, which I think is quite good. She has shot a few with
this load, & while the bullet seems soft at times, the Deer were there for
me to do a post mortem on, so we can't say they failed. I think I may
load 125 Nos. Part. or 130GR TSX because we have alot of brass & it
would allow more practice, but this load is not bad.

BuzzKill · « **Reply #24 on:** December 05, 2005, 06:08:51 AM »

Jh45- I don't doubt at all that the 6.5 is not expanding. A high SD, 140 gr bullet at moderate speeds will most likely zip right through a softer deer target. Less bullet weight, more speed, or find a ballistic tip type bullet at your current 140 gr. Any one of those, not all together though caution you, will increase expansion in your situation. This may require reloading however. Good Luck.

Brithunter · « **Reply #25 on:** December 05, 2005, 11:23:38 AM »

Now I am totally confused :eek:

I have used the 120 and 140 grn bullets in the swedish cartridge on our light deer, Muntjac and Roe with absolutley no trouble with expansion at all. Unless you are using extra hard heavy jacketed bullets then I cannot see how there can be no expansion at all :cry: the original poster said it was factory ammo so therefore it SHOULD be the correct bullet for the cartridges velocity.

It's a puzzlement for sure :?

Don Fischer · « **Reply #26 on:** December 05, 2005, 12:34:16 PM »

Your hesitant? Why is that? Sounds like the deer shot were quite dead. How did the bullets fail? I used the 140 gr Hornady in my wifes 6.5x55 and in my 6.5x06. The bullets may well have failed but everything we shot with them fell down dead within about 20 feet, including one elk.