Author Topic: Looking for flat and quiet deer round/rifle (Read 2509 times)

BattleRifleG3 · « **on:** December 05, 2005, 10:29:44 PM »

I've recently had some very enlightening hunting experiences, and am starting to look in the mid-caliber range for a future whitetailed deer hunting rifle for use in western PA.

Shots range from about 50 to 300yds and up - I kid you not.

I'd roll my eyes at someone asking about the perfect deer rifle, but here's what I'm looking for:
1. I'm not recoil sensitive. But I like my hearing. There was a recent situation where my muzzle blast really shoot a hunting buddy. I likewise was really shaken up by the blast from a friend's 44 Rem Mag. No he wasn't behind me. But dog gonnet I'd much rather be behind the gun than beside it, same with most examples of muzzle brakes/porting. The noise level of a 35 Remington or 30/30 Win would be ideal. A 270 is a bit much. I'm afraid to use my 300 RUM hunting for that reason, unprotected hearing.
2. Flat trajectory. As varied as the ranges are at which I'll be hunting, I really do need a flat trajectory. I used to be a brushbuster fan until realizing that it wasn't really well suited to my fixed position field hunting style. Maybe if I ever go after hogs.

Of course it's more than the round that makes the difference, it's the rifle too, and while I am familiar with most models, I know that the combinations can result in unique strengths and weaknesses.

Rounds I've been thinking of include the 260 Rem, 7mm-08, 6.5 Swede, and such. How do they compare noisewise to the 270, 308, 8x57mm, 7.62x54R, 30-06, and such?

For a rifle, I'm uninclined towards the detent driven linear extractors of Savages, Brownings, and non-Classic Winchesters. Weatherby Vanguard and Remington 700 are my preferences at the moment. Claw extractored CZs, Win M70 classics, and Ruger M70s are possibilities.

I'm friendly to long barrels, as they would improve ballistics and reduce noice. A Swedish Mauser may fit the bill, though I'd rather buy an existing sporter than bubba an original. I love the look and feel of the Rem Model 7, but the barrel length is probably too short for my tastes - but I could be wrong. 26" is perfectly fine for me. If only they made barrels longer. If I had my say my 30" would be standard for a 300 RUM. That all said, I'd be accepting of a shorter barrel, short meaning 20"ish if it was a model I liked, and would be happy to know which mid caliber rounds are flatter and quieter from the shorter barrels. 7-08 seems like it would be. 6.5x55mm from scarce reports seems like it may be the flattest and given a long barrel (also more likely) the quietest.

So yeah, anyone able to compare 260 Rem, 6.5x55 Swede, 260 Rem, and other rounds with flat trajectories and low noise? As opposed to a big thumper that drops fast or a zipper that burns a lot of powder for a small edge and barks like an A-bomb. Not liking stainless at this point on account of spooking game, but I'm friendly to any material of stock. In fact, I make my own, so that wouldn't be a big deal if it was something I couldn't live with, though I can appreciate a good stock that I didn't invent.

TNrifleman · « **Reply #1 on:** December 06, 2005, 12:47:38 AM »

The 6.5x55 is a fine deer cartridge with low recoil and noise, fine accuracy, and plenty of range and power. You might take a look at a 257 Roberts too. It has those attributes as well. I have them both and believe they are excellent tools for hunting whitetails.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #2 on:** December 06, 2005, 01:08:37 AM »

If a 30/30 or .35 Remington would be ideal, why not use them and just get a little closer? My guess is that more PA hunters use a 30.30 than any other round.........Have you thought about a 7mm/08 or 7 x 57mm?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 06, 2005, 01:23:12 AM »

The 7mm/08 would fit the bill just right.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2005, 01:31:04 AM »

7mm08 and you can soft reload it for closer ranges.

PEPAW · « **Reply #5 on:** December 06, 2005, 02:18:58 AM »

I would opt for a .260 with a 22" or longer barrel. When I get the extra change I want to switch from a 20" on my Model 7 to a 23". The longer barrel will make it balance a little better offhand. I think it'll make the "perfect" deer rifle!
The .260 can uses a slightly heavier bullet than some of the flatter shooters like a 25-06 or .257 Weatherby.
Check the ballistics on the Remington site to compare cartridges and this recoil table: http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
After all this advice, rifle style and especially fit are probably more important than caliber for deer hunting under 300 yards.

pepaw

Savage .250 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 06, 2005, 02:26:59 AM »

You said in part,"..................and such." That gives me an opening of sorts. As your choice of cal would need to have a relatively flat trajectory
over a fair distance and not have a muzzle blast that wakes the dead
the Savage 99 in .250 is right there. Accurate,mild muzzle blast( more like a POP) and light to carry. Sounds just like mine.
Hard to find but certainly meets your needs. IMO.

" The best part of the hunt is not the harvest but in the experience."

missouri dave · « **Reply #7 on:** December 06, 2005, 03:53:18 AM »

I use a cz-550 mannlicher stocked in 6.5 swede. Using the 140 grain trophy bonded bear claws I've never had one walk away yet. I don't think one has ever gone more than 8 or 10 feet yet. Reasonably flat shooting and burris makes a dandy scope with a TDS reticle calibrated for the 140 grain round that definately helps in long range shooting at the range though while hunting I've never needed a shot over 150 yards. At 100 yards it will put them in one hole. So much for mannlicher stocks not being accurate. Not sure about the noise level as I am a little hard of hearing.

Graybeard · « **Reply #8 on:** December 06, 2005, 04:44:15 AM »

There are NO QUIET deer rounds. All are noisy enough to damage hearing. The actual db level is very close for all of them. All being above the thresh hold level to do damage. Just wear hearing protection. If you're shooting over 300 yards your not gonna hear the deer anyway.

mountainview · « **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2005, 05:01:50 AM »

GB makes very valid and good points. I wear muffs and plugs when on my stand on private land. May seem counterintuitive to do so because you won't hear the game. To a point it is true but deer seem to pussyfoot and even when archery hunting, many deer just appear out of thin air with little or no audible warning (then again maybe my hearing is just too damaged to notice the small amount of noise they make if any). It is not that hard to get used to wearing ear protection when hunting. I've found that it makes me focus more on visual signs and I've likely seen more deer that I would otherwise not have noticed, also keeps my head warmer and I can stay on the stand longer.

Ramrod · « **Reply #10 on:** December 06, 2005, 06:02:06 AM »

Any of the midsize non-magnumns work fine as deer guns. As for wearing hearing protection while hunting, to each his own. What I like to do is called hunting, not "sniping", or "deer shooting". I would never wear hearing protection when hunting. I usually hunt in the woods, both stand hunting, and still hunting, and have heard many deer comming before I have seen them. Just yesterday I heard a doe call to her fawn before I spotted either one. You are also missing out on most of the hunting experience, if you are not hearing the calls of crows, squirrels, bluejays, the honking of geese flying over head, ect. Wear the protection every time you practice, skip it when afield.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #11 on:** December 06, 2005, 08:24:32 AM »

If the deer is at 300 yards, couldn't you slip some ear plugs in before the shot? If the deer were closer maybe not.......I don't blame you for wanting to save your ears......While one shot can certainly damage your hearing, most hearing loss occurs over time from long term exposure........but your right, now is the time for you to be concerned, not after you've lost it.......

I tend to agree with Ramrod however......and would feel that I was missing something if I sat all day with ear plugs in......

Lawdog · « **Reply #12 on:** December 06, 2005, 12:49:38 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard

There are NO QUIET deer rounds. All are noisy enough to damage hearing. The actual db level is very close for all of them. All being above the thresh hold level to do damage. Just wear hearing protection. If you're shooting over 300 yards your not gonna hear the deer anyway.

AMEN TO THAT. :wink: Lawdog

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 06, 2005, 01:15:17 PM »

Glad to hear the 250 Savage fits that bill. A friend of mine has one that I could perhaps try out.

Sounds like I'm in the right ballpark with 260, 6.5x55, and 7mm-08. Of course I'm not ruling out others, that's what I'm asking about too. But knowing of course that the rounds have their attributes and then so do round/rifle combinations.

It's sounding like the 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser is as good an idea as any, and may be the most common sub-30 caliber round due to international sources. Good for affordable practice. And may be a quieter option due to the longer barrels out there. Challenge would be to find an unshortened one that's already sporterized. I'd also probably go for a cock-on-opening conversion.

That said, a wood stocked Remington Model Seven in 7-08 or 260 Rem would be absolutely sweet as long as its shorter barrel didn't make a huge difference in noise level. I'm starting to lean Remington these days for a few reasons.

Regarding hearing protection, those new devices that allow one to hear soft noises while protecting against the louder ones may be just the thing. Reason I need to be able to hear things is to communicate with other hunters in my party, particularly juveniles under my supervision and folks I would like to learn from.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #14 on:** December 06, 2005, 01:29:09 PM »

The reports I've read indicate you need to be prepaired to spend $600 or more to get something decent.......let us know if you find something that works.....

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 06, 2005, 01:42:34 PM »

If I've learned anything about responsible gun buying is that you should be willing to spend what it takes or learn to make do with what you have. I have 8 deer legal rifles and shotguns, they just have different siting options, ranges, or noise levels than what I'm looking into here. I also have friends with rifles to spare, some of which I'm quite comfortable and familiar with.

$600 doesn't sound insane for a new rifle and quality scope. If I can't afford what it takes I'll simply wait.

JJ79 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 06, 2005, 06:19:00 PM »

Quote from: Ramrod

Any of the midsize non-magnumns work fine as deer guns. As for wearing hearing protection while hunting, to each his own. What I like to do is called hunting, not "sniping", or "deer shooting". I would never wear hearing protection when hunting. I usually hunt in the woods, both stand hunting, and still hunting, and have heard many deer comming before I have seen them. Just yesterday I heard a doe call to her fawn before I spotted either one. You are also missing out on most of the hunting experience, if you are not hearing the calls of crows, squirrels, bluejays, the honking of geese flying over head, ect. Wear the protection every time you practice, skip it when afield.

I agree, just doesn't seem like you could enjoy being in the woods with ear-muffs/plugs on... As a musician, my hearing is very important to me, and I can honestly tell you that I have lost some of it, though not from shooting (it's from years of playing drums while surrounded by really loud guitar amps :roll: ).

But I just can't imagine sitting in the woods hunting and missing out on all the sounds. To tell the truth, I really don't even notice muzzle blast when taking a shot at an animal. Maybe its because I've already lost too much hearing, but I just don't notice that .270 going off when I'm concentrating on making that shot count...come to think of it, really don't notice the recoil that much either. While I definitely think you should use plugs/muffs at the range, I just can't see using them in the woods unless you're shooting a really loud cartridge.

All that said, I've heard that the .25 WSSM is a good deer cartridge that doesn't have a lot of blast...

Slamfire · « **Reply #17 on:** December 06, 2005, 07:53:56 PM »

Actually $600 is the price of "shooter's plugs" that you buy from the hearing aid companies. They are molded to you ear boost your hearing and shut off around 90 dB, which will damage your hearing. Mine were made by Starkey, and when I touch ol' Betsy off, all I hear is the sound conducted through my bones. I can hear ol' Wiley Coyote tiptoein' through the tulipes before I shoot.

Smaller calibers make about the same amount of noise as the bigger ones, it is just in a different frequency range. The trouble with the .250 is that they made way too many with a 14" twist, so 100 grain bullets may not work.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #18 on:** December 07, 2005, 12:34:04 AM »

Yes, $600 was in reference to game ears.......

kombi1976 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 07, 2005, 02:11:05 AM »

6.5x55 is my recommendation.
And the guys are right.
Centrefire basically equals hearing protection.
If you want to be sneaky, and I'm unsure of the laws in your state, you could find out about some sort of noice reduction.
Otherwise, plug up and deal with it.
That said, some rounds like 243, 25-06 and 270 are really loud.
Anything that reliably launches things at seriously high speed pays the price somewhere and that somewhere is usually recoil and muzzle blast.
The other option I guess is a nice long barrel but I'm not sure how much difference it would really make.

5x5 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 07, 2005, 06:26:25 AM »

Look at the Winchester M70 classic in 6.5x55. Should be just right. -Ian

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** December 07, 2005, 06:52:51 AM »

I've been using a pair of Sportears for the last year, they work excellent and I have to give them credit for the turkey I got last spring, if I hadn't been using them, I'd have never heard his first reply and would have walked away from him. They're spendy, but well worth it to me. I tried the Walker's Game ears but they were too uncomfortable and I didn't care for the over-the-ear fit. There also Ear inc's offering for about the same money as the Sportear, and the Radians for about $80 a pair which have good reviews at RFC. What ever you choose, just wear something to protect your hearing, once you loose it, it's gone forever.

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?id=2052

http://www.clearearusa.com/usa/sport.php?PHPSESSID=3bea1f4fb2c3ad34807700892f05a60e

http://www.earinc.com/m-hunting.php

Radians in-ear

Radians muff

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 07, 2005, 08:48:42 AM »

I'd agree that the likes of 270 is far worse than 30-06 for hearing. I've found 8x57mm, 7.62x54R and 308 Win with decent length barrels to be even softer. I'd like a flatter trajectory, but if the noise of 308 is lower than 7-08 and longer barrels are available, I just might go that route.

I thought that the 25 WSSM would have more blast than say the 25-06 or 270. If not, it may be worth my attention.

I have a feeling a longer barrel may make more of a noise difference than say 260 vs 7-08 vs 308 vs 270.

Brithunter · « **Reply #23 on:** December 07, 2005, 09:51:59 AM »

Hi All,

Hmmmm I would get as et of those electronic ear muffs, they shut off the dangerous noise levels but allow you to hear normal conversations so you will be able to hear a lot of the natural sounds if not al of them. Oh they will also keep your ears warm :wink:

Now the 6.5x55 is an excellect choice and Ruger chamber the 77 in it as does Winchester and you coulds also look out for one of the Remington classics as I believe they did one in 6.5. Kimber also chamber this as does Howa but I have heard not too good things about the Howa's but it's your choice :wink:

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 07, 2005, 05:08:01 PM »

If I went 6.5 Swede, I'd be severely tempted to get a Swede Mauser, but I tend to like the ones that are mildly but not too drastically sporterized. And I don't want to bubba an original. Howa's tempting as I actually like the Weatherby Vanguards which are the same as the Howa and made by Howa, but with a Weatherby barrel and guaranteed accuracy. Anyone know what's reported to be poor about Howas?