450 marlin model 94

[white feather]

I was wondering if anyone had kicked the idea around of takeing a model 94 in 450 marlin and setting the barrel back to get rid of the belt and rechamber it to 45/70, the only thing i can see that might bring up a problem would be the rim size, would like to hear from someone who thinks it might work, i have the gun spotted already, he wants to sell it after it doted his eye while he was trying to sight it in with a scope on it, thanks for the in put.

[John Traveler1]

Checking the case dimensions of both cartridges suggests that the rechambering would not be a good idea.  The .450 case diameter is significantly larger than the .45-70 above the rim.

Since the 94 is already chambered in .444 Marlin, it should be strong enough for .45-70 breech thrust.  The question is whether the large rim would leave enough meat on the bolt face.

Why not leave it in .450 Marlin?  It will do almost anything the .45-70 will do, and available in factory loads.

[white feather]

John

Feel free to correct me if i wrong but according to my print out on chamber size the 450 marlin and 45/70 are the same length at 2.105, the area in front of the web is .5039 on the 45/70 and .5030 on the 450 marlin.

If the model 94 is chambered in 450 marlin it should handle a 45/70 with ease, its a lever so your not haveing to open the bolt face, the reason i want to change it to 45/70 is because of the price  of 450 ammo, its $39.95 a box, where you can buy 2 boxes of 45/70 ammo with some change left over, thanks for your input.

[John Traveler1]

My apologies for giving you bad info.  I took the case measurements from a loaded .45-70 round and a fired 7mm Magnum case, thinking the belted case (with bigger belt) was the basis for the .450 Marlin.

If the bolt face does not need opening up, then YES, a rechamber to .45-70 is indeed feasible.  It would also require modifying the cartridge stop, opening up the feed rails inside the receiver, and possibly the loading gate cover to fit the larger .45-70 rim.  Setting back the barrel two or three threads, rechambering, cutting back the extractor hook, and shortening magazine tube.  Oh yes, that assumes the magazine tube i.d. will handle the .45-70 rim.  This conversion will probably cost close to US$200.  I can see a hobbyist gunsmith doing it himself, but a gunshop will charge machining time, the reamer, etc.

I guess I am truly shocked to read that a box of .450 Marlin ammunition sets you back more than forty bucks!!  Have you considered handloading ammunition?  Surely you can get an economical Lee Loader or Lyman 410 tong tool and reload for about $5/box of 20 rounds.  Cast your own bullets, and the cost is cheaper than that.

HTH
John

[EsoxLucius]

The 45-70 cartridge goes from .505" to .480" in about 2.025", the distance between just ahead of the rim and the case mouth, while the 450 Marlin goes from .512" to .481" in about 1.82", the distance between just ahead of the belt to the case mouth. About .460 inch forward of the base, a fired .450 Marlin case is about .009 inch larger in diameter than a fired 45-70 case.  However, the belt on a 450 Marlin is .532" and the belt extends about a quarter inch above the base.  The 450 Marlin case is .512" just ahead of the belt.  You would have to cut off more than this much from the barrel as the rim of the rechambered 45-70 coinciding with the forward edge of the belt of the 450 Marlin chamber would still leave the diameter of the chamber just ahead of the rim .0007" or more oversize.  Hence, I believe you would have to cut almost a half an inch off the barrel and then rethread and rechamber.

[akpls]

........ the reason i want to change it to 45/70 is because of the price  of 450 ammo, its $39.95 a box, where you can buy 2 boxes of 45/70 ammo with some change left over.......

$39.95!!!  Even here in Interior Alaska where everything is supposed to "cost more", .450M ammo is only $26.95.  The only way to get an equivalent 45-70 load up here is by reloading or buying Buffalo Bore at $49.95 a box.  :shock:

[jbadams66]

I think reloading for the .450 would be your best bet.  You would cut the cost of ammo down alot and you could afford to shoot more.  Plus the cost to get into reloading would be less then having the barrel cut down, rechambered and then rethreaded.

[white feather]

I think its best to just scrap this idea, i did check on the ammo again today, the manager told me that the price was a mistake, it susposed to be $34.95 a box, he told me he would give me a discount if i was to buy 5 or more boxes, i already re-load and have dies for 45/70 and about 500 rounds of remington brass is why i wanted to re-chamber it to 45/70, looks like it going to be one of those things that looks good on paper but just wont work, so now ill start looking for a 1886, thanks for all the input, its very much appreciated, WF.

[Lawdog]

white feather,

Answer a question for me please.  what do you think you would gain by going to all this trouble?  The .450 Marlin will do anything that the .45-70 will do and do it with a stronger case.  If you dead set on having a lever action .45-70 why not opt for a Model 1895 Marlin?  Lawdog
 

[white feather]

Lawdog

The way i see it, the 45/70 will do anything a 450 Marlin will do with less pressures and cheaper, i have the 45/70 dies and 500 rounds of remington brass, also have a bullet mold.

I would have to buy the reloading dies for the 450 Marlin at $62.99, then the brass for the 450 is $46.88 per 100, brass for the 45/70 is $35.29 per 100.

When i buy a new rifle i like to buy at least 100 rds of ammo so i have the brass to reload, untill i can get set up to reload, i cant see buying 5 boxes of 450 ammo at $34.95 per box.

I was thinking that all we would have to do was remove the barrel and cut off 1/2 inch insert a 45/70 reamer and chamber, install and cut another extractor notch, no big deal for a friend of mine who is a retired machinest/ tool and die maker, all i would be out was a chamber reamer and a head space guage, he loves to tinker on guns so i was going to let him work on mine, the measurements i had and the measurements that were posted here were a lot different, as much as .10, no big deal, you know how it is when you get a brain storm that turns out to just be a brain fart, thanks everyone who came to my aid here with info and your 2 cents worth, its appreciated, now im going to see if i can find something in the medicene chest thats good for brain farts, WF.

[akpls]

The way i see it, the 45/70 will do anything a 450 Marlin will do with less pressures and ........

Only if you reload or spend even bigger $$ for the hot 45-70 stuff.  The "tinkering" aspect of the whole thing does sound pretty interesting though.

[Lawdog]

white feather,

I would have to buy the reloading dies for the 450 Marlin at $62.99, then the brass for the 450 is $46.88 per 100, brass for the 45/70 is $35.29 per 100.

[/b]

First of all brass is less than $39.00 per 100 for the .450 Marlin.  About what you pay for .45-70 brass(Midway) and can be found lots cheaper with very little effort.  The last bunch of brass I bought for my .450 Marlin was off Ebay, 150plus once fired brass for $17.52 not including shipping, all nicely cleaned/polished.  When they arrived the count was 158.  And as for the dies I paid $24.98 for the three die set from RCBS from Midway four years ago.  Shop around and you’ll be surprised at how cheaply reloading supplies can be bought.  Lawdog
 

[white feather]

Lawdog

The prices i quoited were from the Midway catalog.
Page 113 Hornady 450 Marlin brass $23.49 per 50 X2 =$46.98 per 100

page 87 Redding 3 die set 450 marlin $62.99

I really like the Redding dies, have a set in 45/70 and a set in 40/65  i have used RCBS dies for years, and yes they are a lot cheaper on price, but still a good product.

Im not sure what im going to do, still want a 45/70 so i can use these dies and brass, im trying to talk my brother in law into selling me his Winchester 1886, but so far its a no go, im just not a Marlin fan, had one and it jamed so much i finally sold it, think thats why the man sold it to me was because of the jaming, thanks for your consern, WF.

[Lawdog]

white feather,

The "less than $39.00 per 100 for the .450 Marlin" came right from Midway.  http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=1&Categoryid=9128&categorystring=9315***652***670***9013***  When I bought my RCBS dies I did so because Redding die set was not available.  They were on back order due to sales.  I just like the idea of the stronger case that the .450 Msarlin has.  And it lends itself better to the bolt actions which I prefer.  Lawdog
 

[white feather]

Lawdog

Your right i looked at the link, i was just looking at the catalog they sent me, the brass your looking at is on sale, the brass i was looking at was not, thought maybe the brass made by Hornady was maybe a little higher because there the first to make it, and may be a little better quality, oh well, still stuck on a 45/70, maybe ill get to a gun show and find one like i want, saw one at a show about 6 months but couldnt get to man to see eye to eye with me on the trade, he wanted me to give him a $1,500 rifle and trade even for a $850.00 rifle, i was born at night but it wasent last night, thanks for the heads up Lawdog, take care, WF.

[millwright]

450 Marlin ammunition, 350 gr. hornady, from Midsouth in Tenn. is less than $22.00 per box of 20.

[white feather]

I really appreciate all the replys, but i have my eye on a Winchester model 1886 now, if i can just get them to trade with me ill have it made, thanks again.