Author Topic: Didn't Think He Had It In Him????????????? (Read 1235 times)

Lawdog · « **on:** December 12, 2005, 11:48:53 AM »

I didnt think that bleeding heart conservative had the gonads to stand up and deny clemency to Williams. :eek: I wonder who was standing behind The Wimpminator to give him the courage to say NO to Stanley Tookie Williams? I know, hes been smoking RUM soaked cigars lately. :-D Lawdog

Gun Runner · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:28:01 PM »

Lawdog, any bets on a riot because of this? Maybe his cigars were made with some LOCAL grown!

Gun Runner

jh45gun · « **Reply #2 on:** December 12, 2005, 06:23:37 PM »

I hate gangs and what they stand for glad to see this scum getting his comeuppance!

Sourdough · « **Reply #3 on:** December 12, 2005, 06:28:10 PM »

Always felt the Govanator would say NO! Never doubted it for a minute.

BUT, I feel the riots will start at midnight, and get nasty when the death announcement is made.

big medicine · « **Reply #4 on:** December 12, 2005, 06:46:05 PM »

Maby the cigars were a gift from Monica :grin:

nomosendero · « **Reply #5 on:** December 12, 2005, 08:17:59 PM »

Lawdog
I agree with you in your feeling about Arnold & I wasn't sure what he would do.
I appreciate your humor about the conservative statement as you & I both
know that he is no conservative. Some of the blue state "Republicans" like
him & Ms. Snow & Spector & others are hypocrites & Republican in name
only as a real Conservative they think can't win in these "wimped out States" & we all know it.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2005, 12:35:14 AM »

While Tookie Williams was a hanus criminal and deserved to be punished, it was vengance not justice to kill him.

DNA evidence has freed 267 men. What technology will be available 10 years from now that will free another 200+ men? Imagine it's you sitting on death row an innocent man.

How, on the one hand can we teach our children "Thou shall not kill", and on the other hand allow the state to do so?

One day, we will all stand to be judged. All will ask for mercy. How can you expect mercy if you cannot be merciful?

The death penalty if fundamentally wrong. You go ahead and rejoice in his death. I choose to morn the loss of gods most precious gift, life.

magooch · « **Reply #7 on:** December 13, 2005, 03:18:47 AM »

Well good then--vengence was done. The only problem was that it came about 25 years too late.

CEJ1895 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 13, 2005, 03:23:35 AM »

victorcharlie - No offence to you intended but who mourns for the people he murdered or ordered murdered? We're talking about the leader of a bloodthirsty gang of animals who at this very moment are still killing, raping and terrorizing whole communities. The only thing wrong with his death sentence was that it took so long to be carried out! I agree, mistakes have been made and DNA testing has freed some but it's also confirmed the guilt of more convicted criminals, we just don't hear about those. CEJ...

nomosendero · « **Reply #9 on:** December 13, 2005, 03:47:04 AM »

victorcharlie
As CEJ said, I do not want to offend anyone, but when we stand before
Judgement & if we have put a KNOWN killer to death, remember that
God is for Capital Punishment. Yes, Moses came down the mountain with
the Commandments & in the same time frame God killed Korah & those with him. Is there a contradiction? NO, not for those who have studied this. I don't want to preach here, so I will close by saying that if someone wants to pm me with the intent to study this, I will be happy to do so, & this includes the New Testament.
I do agree that all means should be used to make sure the accused is
guilty. This man made fun of the sounds that one of his victums made
after he was shot, I do not feel sorry for him, but I do feel sorry for the
families of the victums.

Lawdog · « **Reply #10 on:** December 13, 2005, 10:15:04 AM »

Quote from: Sourdough

Always felt the Govanator would say NO! Never doubted it for a minute.

BUT, I feel the riots will start at midnight, and get nasty when the death announcement is made.

A riot or two wouldn't have surprised me but none developed. I believe the only reason "The Wimpminator" didn't give Williams clemency was he wants to get re-elected next year and he knows that every time the "anti-death penalty crowd" gets a measure on a ballot it's gets voted down by at least a 2/3's margin by California voters. The Wimpminator bombed out on his special election last month and at the moment his popularity is at its lowest. Wimp had to do something to try and get back into the voting public's good graces. Lawdog

rockbilly · « **Reply #11 on:** December 13, 2005, 05:05:53 PM »

If a few more of the wimps holding office of gov took notice of Arnold's move it may be lead to a kinder, more gentle society. What chaps my hide is the idea of these creeps setting on death row for 10-20 years before justice is served.

In my opinion, if swift action was taken to eliminate those given the death penalty, I think crime would be reduced. Some may argue this point, but that is my view of the situation.

We need to add a few more crimes to the list that results in the death penalty, drug dealers for example, makes no difference if it is one oz or 40 lbs, fry em if they sell drugs. Any crime where murder is committed along with another crime, robbery-murder, rape-murder, etc. :x :x

I have a very dear friend who's 19 year old daughter was kidnapped from her place of employment, held for several days, raped, murdered and her body dumped on a deserted road on the outskirts of town. The guy that committed this crime was given life, but after 12 years he is up for parole. Something is wrong here. This son-of-a-dog should have met his maker in the death chamber long ago. My friend's daughter was an honor student at U. of Texas working her way through school, she was an outstanding citizen that was loved and respected by all that knew her. The creep that killed her had a record as long as my leg. In cases like this there should be no questions, make a swift date with the death chamber.

nomosendero · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2005, 02:25:44 AM »

I could not agree more that the death penalty should be carried out quickly.

Also, public hangings had a good purpose. The "modern" Westerns show
those who attend these as being a bunch of hayseeds who took their kids
to watch just for entertainment. In reality, people took their kids to these
hangings to show what the consequence of capital crimes were & it would stick in their minds.
In my youth, the State Of AR. had a program that was shown to all the
schools. The State Police would bring a group of convicts that would explain to us the consequences of the various crimes that they committed
plus they would show us a film of a man frying in the chair. Boy, that
stuck! We knew that we did not want that!!!
Punishment & consequences in general aren't taught in schools anymore &
we can sure tell, can't we.

Lawdog · « **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2005, 09:45:19 AM »

Quote

Any crime where murder is committed along with another crime,
robbery-murder, rape-murder, etc.

Those crimes already carry the death penalty here in California. Personally I believe with you they need to add more offenses to the death penalty list. At the top of the list is Drug Dealing. Then add crimes like Rape, Child Abuse or any crime that causes or could cause death/dismemberment/great bodily harm of another. I also agree that executions need to be made public again. I am not against inflecting so-called undue pain/mental anguish" on someone that has committed crimes against others. Let them suffer like those and the families of those they harmed. Letting convicts sit on Death Row for ten+/- years at a cost of $40,000 a year should be abolished too. As soon as their appeals are used up then 60 days later their execution should be held. Lawdog

Gun Runner · « **Reply #14 on:** December 14, 2005, 09:57:23 AM »

Lawdog, you and I paddle the same canoe!!!

They should hold public hangings every sunday at 1 P.M., this gives the folks from church a chance to see justice done also. Probably woundent be to long and would have to find something else to do on sunday after noons. Maybe go shooting.

Gun Runner

Lawdog · « **Reply #15 on:** December 14, 2005, 11:15:56 AM »

Quote from: Gun Runner

Lawdog, you and I paddle the same canoe!!!

They should hold public hangings every sunday at 1 P.M., this gives the folks from church a chance to see justice done also. Probably woundent be to long and would have to find something else to do on sunday after noons. Maybe go shooting.

Gun Runner

Not a bad idea but I was thinking about adding it on a Paid Per View event like wrestling. That way it would help circumvent the cost of the trial and any left over should be divided up among the victims and or their families. Any and all profits from articles, books, plays, movies or whatever that may arise should also be divided up among the victims and or their families. No criminal or their family should ever be able to profit from their crimes. Lawdog

nomosendero · « **Reply #16 on:** December 14, 2005, 03:32:37 PM »

Self-Supporting Death Row, Not bad Mr. Lawdog, not bad at all!

williamlayton · « **Reply #17 on:** December 14, 2005, 10:54:16 PM »

HUMMMMM, well, this thread is becoming unraveled. Lets see here.
Arnold did the right thing and i suspect it was not a hard choice for him no matter the public disclosure to the contrary.
I would suspect he delayed his denial so that there would be little time to mount a public defence. He delayed just long enough for there to be anytime for there to be any backlash at the decision. There I have said it two ways and still am not sure it is understandable.
I like the ability of the convicted to have rights of appeal and have no special feelings of need to hasten the process.
I like to make sure that justice is done. I like to make sure that WE have done the right thing to the right person.
It seems to me that we have done that in this case. While he may not have done the crime, he was involved. I hated to see Carla Faye meet her fate but I agreed with the process. It matters not what happened to her from man, I know the Lord had forgiven her and I pray the same for this man.
I would rather that ten go free than one innocent be convicted.
I would hope that the boys do their job in finding the correct ones than just trying to clean up the files.
I find myself thinking, more and more, that the boys are lax in their investigations and that prosecutors are equally lax in their prosecution.
Blessings

Qtip · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2005, 11:07:32 AM »

willianlayton,

I don't agree. I don't think the "boys" are getting lax. I think it's more like a screwed up judicial system that has let lots of ridiculous things in as evidence on behalf of the acccused and allowing the criminal to be protrayed as the "victim". Do innocent people get convicted? You bet. Why? Because it is a human system that doesn't work perfectly all the time. If you or your family mamber was bruttally assaulted or killed by one of the ten you'd rather see go free you would be the first to cry out. Do you personally know just what kind of animals we are talking about here? In todays system the amount of evidence need is far greater than was required a hundred years ago and the appeals process has become a common-place joke. It is that process that makes capital punishment seem cruel when convicts have to wait years and years to get what they deserve. The media has a way of showing only the bad points about police and DA screw-ups and fail to mention the countless successes. Look at OJ. That whole thing was turned into a circus by the media and they did more harm than good. as a cop for 27 yrs. I had to see the victims and wound up with very, very little sympathy for criminals.

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!

victorcharlie · « **Reply #19 on:** December 15, 2005, 11:29:49 AM »

Quote from: williamlayton

I would rather that ten go free than one innocent be convicted.
I would hope that the boys do their job in finding the correct ones than just trying to clean up the files.
I find myself thinking, more and more, that the boys are lax in their investigations and that prosecutors are equally lax in their prosecution.
Blessings

I'm sorry guys, but once you put some one to death there is no undoing it. Here's a story about a guy that was released today on DNA evidence, convicted of killing his mother in law and others......Thank god he didn't get the death penalty. How would you like to be on death row for a crime you didn't commit? The death penalty is just plain wrong........

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051215/ap_on_re_us/inmate_dna_evidence;_ylt=AgVSdX1R393GRI_yBqkP5ehH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-

jimster · « **Reply #20 on:** December 15, 2005, 01:46:29 PM »

I guess I have a question.
If I would have been in a position to keep this man from killing innocent people, by drawing my gun and killing him...would that too have been wrong?
The way I see it, I would have been judging him, and convicting him in a split second. I would have sentenced him to death right there on the spot.
Would that have been wrong too?
If not (I assume you would think that was OK cause a cop would have killed him too)...then what is the difference if me, or a cop putting him to death...or the State laws?

Just asking
Jimster

nomosendero · « **Reply #21 on:** December 15, 2005, 02:30:08 PM »

victorcharlie
It is not wrong if we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person is
guilty. Use DNA evidence & anything possible to be sure. Stories that tell
how someone is freed because of DNA don't prove that we don't need a
death penalty, only that we should use DNA.
I want to remind you that you are the one that mentioned in your first post "Thou Shalt Not Kill" which of course is from the Ten Commandments.
These commandments were given obviously for the people to go by, they
were not suggestions, but commandments. What you failed to mention is
the book of Deuteronomy, in this book God told Moses how to set up Cival
Law & punishment for those who broke the Commandments. In several
matters, God called out for the Death Penalty. So when you say that the
Death Penalty is wrong, you are in effect saying that God was wrong, I
would reconsider that. I don't want to preach & I would not have brought
up the Spiritual aspects of this since we can believe what we want in this
country, but if we bring up a verse without the whole picture, then I have
a right to point it out.
Again, I am not desiring to offend.

nomosendero · « **Reply #22 on:** December 15, 2005, 02:54:45 PM »

jimster
Good point, Sir! It goes to the core of concealed carry, the right to defend
ourselves & protect INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Bear Rider · « **Reply #23 on:** December 15, 2005, 08:04:52 PM »

victor charlie,

The problem is, the original commandment in hebrew is "thou shalt not murder", not "thou shalt not kill".

It was mistranslated in the King James Bible, probably to help secure the place and safety of the nobility.

williamlayton · « **Reply #24 on:** December 16, 2005, 01:56:14 AM »

TOO BE SURE, the death penalty is good!!!!
This business is not a closure for anyone if the decision is incorrect.
Much, thru history, has been made of the wrongful prosecution of the innocent in the name of justice. Justice is only served when rightly applied and the boys often are captured in tunnelvision and prosecutors in "winning."
The boys have a very tough job and it is demanded of them to be absolutely correct in all their ways. There is no loophole if they are wrong be it the issuing of a speeding ticket or of prosecuting to finality "on the spot."
Lawyers, well, they are in the same boat, but, who has ever filed charges on a lawyer who got a conviction on a wrongfully accused and convicted person. Maybe they would be more diligent if such charges could be brought against them.
We all would demand justice for ourownselves, and, should for others also.
I remember, years and years ago, when working at the prison waiting for the Hen to graduate. There was a young man, 19 or 20, in prison for 5 years for stealing a pig. The young man was retarded. I asked him what he did it for and he said he was hungry and he ate the pig.
HUMMMM! I see the wrongness, I just do not see the justice.
Blessings