Here we go.

[powderman]

LEVERDUDE. I do understand your concerns. I truly believe that we are in a war of good, vs evil, islam, against the rest of the world. They are murdering folks around the world for no other reason except that they are non muslim. I had some passages from their koran but I can't find them. They were advised to kill the infidels, us, wherever they were found, to lie in ambush and kill. Human life means nothing to these scum. Not yours, mine, even their own. What kind of man would strap explosives on his child, point him toward a bus load of school children, and tell him to murder those kids and God will reward him with 72 virgins??? A muslim. I feel sorry for these kids who have believed these lies, imagine their horror as they realize they are in hell. God does not reward murderers. I don't care how these scum are detected, phone taps, etc, as long as they are stopped. They have no rules to follow, in fighting them, neither should we. They count on us following the rules and being PC, while they plot to kill us. I realize your concerns, but these people must be stopped, one way, or another. POWDERMAN.  :?  :?  :?  :?

[fe352v8]

Making a generalization that equates Islam with evil, is an over simplification.  Was Hitler, or Stalin, a Muslim? No but between them they were probably responsible for the deaths of 60 million people.  What did they have in common; they were both born into “Christian” homes.  StalinÂ’s parents went so far as to send him to seminary to become a priest.

Look at Mao, he is probably responsible for more deaths than Hitler and Stalin combined, and thereÂ’s Pol Pot he and his Khmer rouge killed around 2 million people, both were born into Buddhist homes.

An equally simple generalization would be that when it comes to despotism, tyranny, and genocide, Christians and Buddhists, theyÂ’re the killers.

It would be nice if one could accurately use simple generalizations to identify the monsters of the world but it is not that simple.

I still feel that it is illogical to believe that by, suspending, bending, circumventing, or otherwise weakening our Constitutional provisions, we are or will be safer.

If you cannot stop an illegal immigrant or the smuggling of drugs, how does it stop a suicide bomber?

Even with around a billion Muslims in the world, an American is still more likely to suffer a violent death at the hands of a family member, or intimate, than at the hands of a terrorist.  That degree of risk does not justify conceding the legal protections that are the hallmark of this country.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

[jh45gun]

The way I look at it if your not a terrorist why worry? Big Brother spys on us in ways most of us have not heard about anyway.

[Brett]

Even with around a billion Muslims in the world, an American is still more likely to suffer a violent death at the hands of a family member, or intimate, than at the hands of a terrorist.  That degree of risk does not justify conceding the legal protections that are the hallmark of this country.

jon

Yep, it's those relatives and intamates that you better be keeping an eye on.   Just watch a couple of  episodes of  Jerry Springer if you don't believe me.  :shock:

[powderman]

I believe I understand now. God sacrificed his only begotten son, Jesus Christ, to die a horrible death on the cross to attone for the sins of all mankind. Even though he was a Jew, Christianity was born. Then, 600 years later, a warlord named mohamed, was told, by an Angel,  that he was to form a new religion called islam. Then God told mohamed that he changed his mind and that he, mohamed, had the job of murdering everybody on this earth that didn't agree with him. All Christians must die. Isn't that about it??? Islam IS the problem, and I don't care how these Godless scum are stopped. POWDERMAN.  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x

[stimpylu32]

I truly wish that we could determine who was bad or good with something as simple as religion or skin color , But it is just not that way.

Look at Northern Ireland , The Protestants and Catholics have been killing each other for years just because they do not beleave the same way .

Look at South Central Los Angleles Ca. , How many children are killed each day by gang-bangers wearing crosses around their necks ,For something as simple as with city block they happen to live in .


Oklahoma City was just another example of an extreamest who put no value on human life , Did all those children do something wrong that they needed to die . NO way.

I could go on and on .

Yes things were diffrent when our forfathers wrote the Constitution and The Bill of Rights . That does not mean that just because times change we just throw it away.

The Constitution was written to show that all people have certain rights given to them by God and that this United States would not take these rights away . The elected officials of this country are in no way above these rights and have no right to take them away from ALL of US

[fe352v8]

Times were simpler when the Constitution was penned, then they are now.  But the authors had the sense to recall the actions of a world leader from time even simpler than theirs.  In November of 1074, Gregory the VII, called for the first crusade.  Change a few words, and this would sound quite contemporary.

Gregory, bishop, servant of the servants of God, to all who are willing to defend the Christian faith, greeting and apostolic benediction.
 
We hereby inform you that the bearer of this letter, on his recent return from across the sea [from Palestine], came to Rome to visit us. He repeated what we had heard from many others, that a pagan race had overcome the Christians and with horrible cruelty had devastated everything almost to the walls of Constantinople, and were now governing the conquered lands with tyrannical violence, and that they had slain many thousands of Christians as if they were but sheep. If we love God and wish to be recognized as Christians, we should be filled with grief at the misfortune of this great empire [the Greek] and the murder of so many Christians. But simply to grieve is not our whole duty. The example of our Redeemer and the bond of fraternal love demand that we should lay down our lives to liberate them. "Because he has laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren," [1 John 3:16]. Know, therefore, that we are trusting in the mercy of God and in the power of his might and that we are striving in all possible ways and making preparations to render aid to the Christian empire [the Greek] as quickly as possible. Therefore we beseech you by the faith in which you are united through Christ in the adoption of the sons of God, and by the authority of St. Peter, prince of apostles, we admonish you that you be moved to proper compassion by the wounds and blood of your brethren and the danger of the aforesaid empire and that, for the sake of Christ, you undertake the difficult task of bearing aid to your brethren [the Greeks]. Send messengers to us at once inform us of what God may inspire you to do in this matter.
 
In Migne, Patrologia Latina, 148:329
trans. Oliver J. Thatcher, and Edgar Holmes McNeal, eds., A Source Book for Medieval History, (New York: Scribners, 1905), 512-13

Maybe this is part of the reason we have that little item, about religion in the Constitution?

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

[powderman]

STIMPYLU23. I see your point but really believe that the war we are in is islam against the world.
FE. Tell me about that part of the constitution that talks of religion. POWDERMAN.            

[Leverdude]

The way I look at it if your not a terrorist why worry? Big Brother spys on us in ways most of us have not heard about anyway.

Thats a good question. One likely asked by alot of folks thru the ages before the point of no return. Our whole system of Gov't depends on us worrying to remain even remotely honest. If everyone just went with the flow  we would go down the toilet real quick.

Maybe the best thing about all this will be its being brought to the surface. Maybe enough people will realize where its headed in time to nip it in the bud.

FE's right on the money when he said none of whats going on is cause for changing what makes this country what it is.  

Who's to say where this might go or how it might be abused. Might be used to catch a bad guy, or win an election, collect some smut for blackmail, all kinds of good can come from it.

[Leverdude]

LEVERDUDE. I do understand your concerns. I truly believe that we are in a war of good, vs evil, islam, against the rest of the world. They are murdering folks around the world for no other reason except that they are non muslim. I had some passages from their koran but I can't find them. They were advised to kill the infidels, us, wherever they were found, to lie in ambush and kill. Human life means nothing to these scum. Not yours, mine, even their own. What kind of man would strap explosives on his child, point him toward a bus load of school children, and tell him to murder those kids and God will reward him with 72 virgins??? A muslim. I feel sorry for these kids who have believed these lies, imagine their horror as they realize they are in hell. God does not reward murderers. I don't care how these scum are detected, phone taps, etc, as long as they are stopped. They have no rules to follow, in fighting them, neither should we. They count on us following the rules and being PC, while they plot to kill us. I realize your concerns, but these people must be stopped, one way, or another. POWDERMAN.  :?  :?  :?  :?

I hear you Powderman & tho it bothers me to admit it I often resent them (Muslims) just because they are who they are. I dont trust them or feel secure around them either. Some of these guys I'v known since childhood & find it impossible to believe them capable of an attack against us, but thats how they operate. I share alot of your feelings on the matter & if our Gov were to nuke the mideast tommorow I'd throw my support behind it with no second thoughts, thats war.  
This is politics & posturing at its best now that its in the open.
If they werent going to abuse it if necessary then why the secrecy? Why not come clean like the man I thought Mr Bush was & tell us they'll be listning in when necessary?

Anyhow Powderman I sure hope you had a nice NewYear.  

[powderman]

LEVERDUDE. I agree that the possibility for abuse exists. If hillary were in power I'd be scared to death. The secrecy part should be obvious. Now that it's out in the open I doubt that much useful info will be gained anymore, they know we are listening. POWDERMAN.    

[Leverdude]

Powderman,

I think they already knew.  :wink:

[PA-Joe]

If you are willing to to give up one Constitutional Right, then you may as well start with the Second Amendment and turn in your guns! It's all or none!

[powderman]

If memory serves me correctly, hanoi john, and the dumcrap party were advocating the nwo for our nation. POWDERMAN.            

[FWiedner]

If memory serves me correctly, G.H.W. Bush opened that door...

 :?

[powderman]

I don't trust the un, wish we would tell them to take a hike. We always end up paying more money than anyone else. I see no benefit in us belonging to it. POWDERMAN.      :?  :?  :?  :?