Ragged cloverleaf three shot patterns (groups) at 50 yards when all the planets are in line :-D :-D , which happens quite often, just yesterday as a matter of fact!! I am shooting a 24" Turkey barrel with either an Improved Cylinder or Modified tube and with a Red Dot mounted, I am going to try my shotgun scope again for smaller groups but the Red Dot is just so small, light, quick and handi it's hard to beat for a shotgun hunting rig. I change from the Mod to I.C. tube, which ever seems to shoot best, I have to settle on one, each seems to be better with different slugs. It seems to most consistently prefer Brenneke Rottwiel MP 2 3/4" standard slugs. Yesterday for some reason my best and only cloverleaf (Brenneke's about 1.5-2") group was from an old box of Remington Sluggers I had lying around. I will have to get some more to try....<><.... :grin: