Author Topic: 45-70 muzzleloader? (Read 851 times)

crosscut · « **on:** December 01, 2005, 12:46:45 PM »

I read about this someplace a couple of years ago and was wondering if anyone had ever done it. The idea is to give the 47-70 the power of a similar but more powerful round, such as a 45-90 or 45-110. You would prime a fired case, place it in the chamber, close the action, dump in enough BP or Pyrodex through the muzzle to fill the chamber past the end of the case, and ram home a slightly undersized lead bullet. The "system" would function essentially as a Huntsman, only using the fired case as a primer holder.

I'm not sure what size bullet a standard 45 cal. muzzleloader uses, but would assume that something like Hornadys 45 Great Plains bullet would work. Or maybe a .452 Long Colt bullet.

You would have to use enough black powder to make sure the bullet doesn't touch the case.

Any ideas or suggestions? I know I should just buy a Huntsman barrel, but whats the fun in that.

myarmor · « **Reply #1 on:** December 01, 2005, 01:09:30 PM »

Interesting concept. But I wouldn't try it.
It's ideas like this that people get hurt, from straying from the original purpose of the cartridge and perhaps overloading makeing for unsafe pressures.
I like originality as much as the next guy, but under safe conditions.
Just my 2 cents.
-Aaron

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 01, 2005, 01:25:23 PM »

Here's a thread at RFC on cartridge muzzleloaders...

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109843

trotterlg · « **Reply #3 on:** December 01, 2005, 01:57:19 PM »

It would probably be about a .440 ball that the patch brings up to .45. The rifling is a lot different in a muzzel loader, a lot deeper, and the twist for a round ball needs to be about 1 in 60 for it to fly right, the pressure rise for black powder is probably not fast enough to seal the brass to the chamber so expect some blow back. Other than not shooting straight because of the far too fast twist and having a very dirty gun when you are done it probably would work. Run a video camera on it when you try, it could be fun to watch, film at eleven. Larry

grendel · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2005, 05:31:40 PM »

Used to be a standard way of loading and shooting some single shot target rifles was to drop a bullet into the chamber and use a lever caming device (general a removable one that attached to the rear sight) to force the LEAD or PAPER PATCHED bullet in the the barrel a known, tested amount. Then a loaded cartridge with a wax/fiber wad keeping the powder in was inserted, the action then was shut and the gun was ready to go.

From time to time I have thought about giving this a try. Would not want to hunt with it though.

Grendel

crosscut · « **Reply #5 on:** December 03, 2005, 03:02:16 AM »

Trotter,
You're right about the rate of twist being way too fast for a roundball, unless you used a very light charge. I'm interested in the use of a slug such as the Hornady I mentioned above, or a resized 45LC lead bullet. If the twist would work for the same bullet seated in a casing, why wouldn't it work loaded this way? If anything, the velocity would be higher. Also, black powder expands the case enough to provide a good seal when used in the "regular" way. Why would it be different if the powder extends out past the end of the case?

RemingtonMagnum · « **Reply #6 on:** December 03, 2005, 04:14:27 AM »

Been there done that! I have a Mauser 8 mm that I patch a 308 and ram it down on top of BP. Will brass shells hold under the pressure of a cartridge explosion? I took a brass bar and turned it down to press in the chamber. Off set drilled a hole and tapped it for a pistol nipple. Had to drill and set the distance/clearance correctly but it will whizz the 308 patch bullets very good. I have killed squirrels with light loads, 60gr BP. Don't use my statements you will have to do all the figuring and estimating on you on.

I drilled the chamber to 1/2" and used that for my brass.

My latest project is to drill another 8mm Mauser with the 1/2" drill and taping it to hold a 1/2" steel bolt. I have Lock Tite the bolt in place so far and need to cut and adjust the nipple.

Don Jackson Remington Magnum

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #7 on:** December 03, 2005, 04:52:51 AM »

That was a pretty standard method in the late 19th Century for match shooters. They used rifles with false muzzles to get the bullets aligned and engraved with the rifling before firing.

I see no real advantage to it with a Handi, but you ain't gonna hurt nothing trying with up to 110 grains of FFg. SB-2s and .45-70 cases take far higher pressures with smokeless loads.

Iffen you really wanted to, although Lord knows why you would, you could convert a .45-70 barrel to a muzzleloader by tapping the chamber for a 1/2" set screw that was drilled to take a primer and with a flash hole.

Sabots oughta work fine, and the Lee REAL bullet should.

Ricci Price · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2005, 09:55:27 AM »

Now for hunting it probably would have to have a breech plug to be legal. Like leftoverdj said you could drill and tap for breech plug and make you a 45cal muzzleloader out of it. 1in 20" twist would probably work my 45cal H&R is a 1in22" twist it is a custom barrel I built myself from a Adams&Bennett 458 (45-70) barrel blank. It shoots 200 grn sst's real good.

45/70fan · « **Reply #9 on:** December 22, 2005, 03:48:27 AM »

My brother in-law uses his 45/70 handi as a muzzle loader. He went to a machine shop and had a piece made that looks like a solid 45/70 case with a small hole (like a muzzle loader breech plug) drilled thru. I'm not sure of the purpose but it has an oring groove with oring installed under the case head. It uses 209 shotgun primers. He has hunted with this for at least 5 seasons with great success. He started out with pyrodex but has switched to smokeless powder (2400 I think). He uses the recommended charge for the Savage smokeless powder muzzle loader, green Hornady sabots, and 240gr 44 mag bullets. I shot my biggest deer to date with it back when he was using pyrodex. It is a sweet shooter. The only down side is having to carry the ramrod seperate.