Undersized primers?

[Turkeyfeather]

I noticed a strange problem with my recent purchase of large rifle primers. They seem to be undersized from my old supply. I also noticed the Rem and Win large rifle primers are coming through in the brass color vrs the silver variety I was accustomed to.

I was loading some factory brass in 270 win when I noticed the primers virtually fell out of the brass case. I have never experienced this before. This was with my new pack of Remington primers. I then tried a pack of Winchesters that I just bought and the problem was the same. This brass has only been loaded a time or two and is not nearly in bad condition.

Not being in tune with the latest developments in primer technology, I was very surprised with this. Now I wonder what other calibers and brass cases I will experience this on. What's going on with this? Are the primer manufacturers going with different materials that result in smaller finished diameter dimensions?  Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[Lone Star]

While it is rather common for certain brands of primers to fit the average primer pocket a bit more tightly than other brands, if what you describe is accurate (falling out of the case), that is not common at all.  Since two different brands of primers fit so loosely, the problem is most certainly with your brass.  Since it is used brass, the root cause is probably excess pressure in the loads you fired in those cases.  Primer pockets will open up with high pressures, and it only takes one firing cycle to do it.  It is also possible that the pockets were a bit large from the factory, but that is rather rare too.  I do not know for certain, but I based soley on what you have written, I suspect hot loads and stretched pockets.

[Patriot_1776]

I agree with what Lone Star said.  I would recommend checking new brass pockets with calipers and compare them to your used brass.  

Wow Lone Star, I think you hold the current record of "multiple post-itis." 5 repeats! :eek:

Remember if you hit the submit button, and an error page shows up, your post is most likely up on the board.  It  seems to be some internal error involving the server or something.  Quite a wierd thing that has been happening recently for me as well.


-Patriot

[clodbuster]

Been having the same thing happening and just with the new brass colored primers, also in 270.  Definitely not a result of hot load as these were Federal factory ammo fired then reloaded.  Out of 20 I reloaded, 6 primers went in so easily I did not continue to load these cases.  The other 14 went in easier than normal.  What gives?

[Slamfire]

Could be a bad lot of brass on the once fired Federals. Sometimes they don't get annealed properly and are a bit on the soft side. I only haven't experienced this problem with Norma brass. That's so expensive I haven't used enough of it to say they don't have the same problem from time to time.

[ricciardelli]

Sounds more like a brass problem than a primer problem.

[stuffit]

Common causes are so called because they occur more often.  The most common cause of the problem described is primer pockets that have been expanded from loads of higher pressure than the cartridge/firearm was designed for.  But there is a very easy way to figure out where the culprit is in the loose fit.  A micrometer;  measure the new primers and some of the older one.  I'm betting they'll have the same diameter.  If not, I'd sure like to know for sure and I bet the manufacturer would too.  If you have inside calipers measure the primer pockets too.   Plese post your findings.
 :wink:
stuffit

[2ndtimer]

While it is possible that the primer pockets may have expanded from high pressure loads, it is also possible that the pockets are on the maximum tolerance size and the new primers may be closer to the minimum tolerance size.  I believe that the nickel plated primers are slightly larger in diameter than the non nickel plated versions.  I sugest buying some Federal primers, whether the 210, 210M or 215 (Magnum) and see if they fit more snugly.  They are the only ones to give a solid feel in my .270WSM brass from winchester.  The other brands feel like they fit too loosely, even in virgin brass.  The CCI-200 also seems to fit better than the Winchester or Remington in the "big pocket" Winchester brass.

[BrushBuster]

I've gone through the same frustrating problem, and finally after researching found that manufacturers do indeed produce primers of different dimensions.

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.html

I switched from Remington to Federal primers because of this condition, and like you I had experienced the Remington primers falling out of new brass pockets. Don't spend a lot of time trying to solve their problem, just switch.

[ricciardelli]

Okay, you guys made me do it!

I opened the primer storage area and grabbed 9 random bricks of primers and measured them.

Here are the results:

Code: [Select]


       TYPE        MANUFACTURER  COLOR DIAMETER HEIGHT
   Large Rifle       Remington    Gold   0.211   0.129
   Large Rifle      Winchester    Gold   0.210   0.131
   Large Rifle      Winchester   Silver  0.211   0.129
Large Rifle Magnum    Federal    Silver  0.211   0.127
   Small Pistol     Winchester    Gold   0.175   0.120
Small Pistol Magnu      CCI      Silver  0.175   0.120
Small Pistol Magnu  Winchester    Gold   0.175   0.119
   Large Pistol         CCI      Silver  0.211   0.126
Large Pistol Magnu      CCI      Silver  0.211   0.126


[Leftoverdj]

Yeah. I ran into this, too. The unplated Win primers are slightly smaller than the older plated ones. It's only a thou or so, but I can feel the difference.

[Steve P]

If the primers go in easy and do not actually fall out, you should be ok.
There are two things that can cause loose primers: excessive pressures (with a 270, this would be extreme due to head thickness of the brass) or someone working the primer pockets with an incorrectly sized primer pocket tool, or just plain inccorrectly using a primer pocket uniforming tool.  

Some of my brass have primers that go in real easy.  Some are a little harder.  I have only ruined brass on 22 hornet and .223 (7TCU) from excessive pressure enough to expand the primer pocket.

Good luck.

Steve