Author Topic: NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???  (Read 1099 times)

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Offline dawgmaster

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« on: January 01, 2006, 12:11:53 PM »
I've got three new handis in the last year, and I reload for all three. I'm not the world's greatest bench shooter, but all shoot sub 1" groups. Should I leave well enough alone or polish bores, add rubber washers, etc, etc.???

Offline mitchell

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2006, 12:20:43 PM »
well sometime you should leave well enough alone but there is a few things you can do ,like the o-ring trick , that if it don't help you can take it back , but polishing bores as far as i know has never hurt.
curiosity killed the cat , but i was lead suspect for a while

Offline Norseman112

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2006, 12:39:54 PM »
Well sounds like you have some decent shooters. I would not do the "O" ring. Not that it don't work because it dose , but I feel there are better ways to free float . Again thats just the way I feel. Check the faqs, and polishing the bore is a good thing. If you are a reloader ....well then we also have more ways to tighten a group don't we? In the grand scheme of things it never hurts to try and improve.

John

Offline dawgmaster

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2006, 01:08:35 PM »
Thx for the tips guys. Would someone mind giving me a quick crash course in polishing the bore and recommend a product to use.

Offline bladerunner

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2006, 01:08:48 PM »
Northof',it's just me,but i personaly wouldn't polish the bore,because if it DOES affect accuracy,you can't take it back
Good shot placement + well constructed bullet = DEAD
 
                               Matt B.

Offline OldBob

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2006, 01:12:37 PM »
They are shooting sub 1" groups ???????? Don't "fix" what ain't broke  :wink:
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Offline mitchell

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2006, 01:16:02 PM »
Quote from: OldBob
Don't "fix" what ain't broke  :wink:



to me rule of thumb is 1 inch for a deer rifle and 1/2 inch for a varmint rifle. but with me i never stop tweaking because it can always get better .
curiosity killed the cat , but i was lead suspect for a while

Offline Duce

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2006, 03:29:08 PM »
NORTHOFTHE49: Befor you tweak read
What To Do With Ruined Handi. If everythings under an inch leave'em alone. Good Shooting :D <>< Duce:
What ever you'll put up with, is exactly what you'll get!!!!!

Offline JPH45

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2006, 03:30:33 PM »
I've fired about 8000 rounds through five NEF's in the last 3 years..... If you are getting sub 1" groups, leave 'em alone, they are working fine. You won't get significanty better accuracy. Be glad you've got what you have and enjoy shooting 'em.
Boycott Natchez Shooters Supplies, Inc

Offline dawgmaster

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2006, 04:03:04 PM »
Thks again guys...I agree. As mentioned I don't strive to be the best bench shooter and I'm thrilled with the accuracy of my Handis. Just thought I should inquire about tweaking just in case I was missing out.

Offline cattleskinner

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2006, 04:20:52 PM »
While I agree that you shouldn't try to fix what ain't broke, I do think that you need to tweak with it to make it better.  You say that you reload, so rather than messing with the rifle to get it to shoot better, just start working on different powder/bullet/primer combos.  Out of five different powder charges, my .223 would keep 4 of the 5 just under an inch for 5 shots, however, on the fifth load, it shrunk the groups down to under 1/2" for 5 shots @ 100yds.  I don't have any doubt in my mind that you can better your groups just by varying what you feed your rifles...good luck :D .

~~~Amos
"You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight"

Offline dawgmaster

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2006, 04:25:55 PM »
cattleskinner,
what was your best load for the 223?

Offline cattleskinner

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« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2006, 04:27:11 PM »
I forgot to mention, when I get a new handi-rifle, or any for that matter I do "lap" the barrel.  I use JB bore cleaner, and coat a clean tight fitting patch, and run it up and down the full length of the barrel 50 times, change the patch out and do it again 50 more times.  By the time you are done, the patch should be going up and down the barrel w/o any difficulties.  Then it's just a matter of cleaning the JB out of the barrel with Hoppes or whatever you like to use, dry out the chamber, and fire away.  You can do the same treatment to the chamber if you want also, just be sure to clean it out when done.

~~~Amos
"You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight"

Offline cattleskinner

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2006, 04:32:35 PM »
I've only tried Varget powder so far, but mine likes:

-27.3gr. Varget
-50gr. V-max bullet
-CCI BR-4 primer
-Lake City brass

I trim with a Lee trimmer, neck sized and loaded on a Lee Loader, and the whole shebang has an overall length of 2.30".

~~~Amos
"You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight"

Offline trotterlg

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2006, 07:35:13 PM »
If you have one that works don't touch it!  These will never be a one hole rifle, the mechanics just don't work that way.  If you have one that is good enough for what you want then just use it.  If you can't stand not to try to make it better then have at it, just be prepared to have a long and trying adventure.  Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline mitchell

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2006, 05:33:23 AM »
Quote from: trotterlg
These will never be a one hole rifle, the mechanics just don't work that way.



they must of “mechanic” mine wrong.

243



308



my 204 can do the same too. i guess they just messed up on my receivers
curiosity killed the cat , but i was lead suspect for a while

Offline aulrich

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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2006, 06:28:03 AM »
I personally think, you need to at least shoot the gun first basically un-modified (I don't count a good cleaning, chamber polish and the bore lapping those are basic start-up sorts of things).  Get an idea of what it shoots best first then mod. If you limited to factory you will need to try a couple, or as a handloader you will need to work up loads for the gun.

That was actually one of my mistakes with a 243 ultra I had. In the past I had depended on a loading book Ken Waters "Pet loads" and it served me quite well pick a load make it and shoot it most every time it had produced reliably accurate results.  But handis seem to have defined sweet spots so you need to go through the working it up process, a previous great load could be crap out of a handi.

After you have determined the base line accuracy then if your requirements are not met then look at tweeking. There are issues that need to be addressed right away if they occur the best example is open on fire that is a lock up issue and that needs to be addresses when it occures or the whole process is comprimised. I suspect that checking lock-up shpuld be part of the standard start-up routine any way.

I got into the same trouble alot of guys with my 243 I did too much too soon and I spent a lot of time spinning my wheels and getting frustrated.
The second mouse gets the cheese

Offline mitchell

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2006, 06:29:23 AM »
Quote from: Mac11700
Ohhhh...now your just showin off... :)  :)  :)




well ........... maybe a little .  :twisted:
curiosity killed the cat , but i was lead suspect for a while

Offline MSP Ret

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2006, 06:46:18 AM »
Along the same lines guys, this is what my .223 barrel does when shimmed and fitted to a new to me but used receiver. It did right from the git go, first time I brought it to the range... I bought 8 rounds of Remingtom ammo off the used ammo table, 3 at 50 in one hole and the next 3 you see pictured next to the old mercury head dime at 100 yards (off an old rolled up blanket!!), I saved the last 2 rounds for coyotes. These are 55 grain Remington HP's...

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=80601


The below is some of my post I had asked Quick to post for me since I was having probelms posting the picture of the target, I asked him to buff up the verbiage in any way he liked and to post it here also which he did. Being the great statesman he is he left out some of my remarks aimed at some here who feel they must go on and on and on about peoblems with their Handi's instead of realizing what we have and to work with what we have, since I have no desire to be a statesman right now I have included my remarks posted below for all here to read, hope you don't mind Quick...

"Heh heh, thanks MSP!! The pic is posted as well as most of the narrative you included.

Quote:
There has been a lot of badmouthing and naysaying of Handi's going
on lately by a couple of members who gripe about these inexpensive guns and keep saying they are getting rid of theirs but still seem to want
to complain about them. I think for the money they are great guns, can they be improved? Yes. Can the factory improve the product we
recieve? Yes. Can we improve the product we recieve? Yes. I am more a hunter than a bench rest shooter and recently recieved a second
hand SB2 action. It really would not fit any of my centerfire barrels well, all were to loose. I shimmed the barrel/action fit and headed to the
range with some odds and ends of .223 ammo. Below is a 100 yard group I shot off a rolled up blanket with some ammo I had never shot
before. Remington 55 gr HP Core Lokt. I bought a partial box for cheap money at a sporting goods store off the used ammo table. I bought 8
rounds in the box, shot 3 rounds at 50 yards in the same small hole, the 3 you see at 100 yards and kept to last 2 for coyotes!!! I will buy
some more and try it again!!! This group was shot with a home fitted barrel action combo and a shimmed barrel. And no failures to eject
either!!!"

....<><.... :grin:  :grin:

By the way, the Winchester 45 gr HP "white box" ammo, what this barrel previously shot the best (until this Remington ammo), shot  appx 1" above and 1" to the right of the bullesye in a little larger group, just over an inch.

edited for spelling...
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley

Offline Norseman112

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« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2006, 09:22:55 AM »
Mac
There is  nothing wrong with trying to improve as long as you can go back to  where one started. Perhaps I am to fussy with wanting my rifles to shoot tiny groups :)  When I said in the "grand scheme things it never hurts to try and improve" That includes different ammo, reloading, scopes, free floating, breathing control to steady your shot  ect" Now I agree one can take improvments to far if he or she  is not real qualified. Then they should only take some improvements so far.  

John

Offline jim62

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2006, 12:25:42 PM »
One really cool thing about the "O" ring modification on the forearm is you can actually take in on or off with no permanent changes to the gun.

In fact ,if you simply take your Phillips head screw driver to the range, you can compare the effect with and without  the "O" ring  during the same range session! :wink:

My .280 Handi shot very well right out of the box(sub MOA) BUT I will be taking a good supply of ammo (ALL INDENTICAL-SAME BATCH) to try out the "O" ring trick to see what happens " for myownself"...

Offline dawgmaster

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2006, 09:49:46 PM »
Thxs, everyone all good advice. I'm defenitely just gonna leave well enough alone cause I'm not having any problems. I'm happy with the groups thus far, and can certainly spend more time on loads tightening them up. I have tried different bullets in all three, but have yet to try any other powders other than WIN 760 & 748, and I know people have great luck with Varget, Benchmark, etc, etc.

I must share a story how I got hooked on Handis...
Got my first one a year ago, NOV '05, it was a SB2-243, brought it home thru a scope on her, took it out shot it on paper about ten times and thru it in the truck. After a week or so I came along 5 wolves crossing a small lake and running into the bush, grabbed the handi and headed down to the edge of the lake, howled for about five minutes and called all 5 wolves back out on the lake, they held up and wouldn't come any closer. So, naturally itching to try out the new gun I let fire...first ever shot at a critter with my new Handi resulted in a 528 yard wolf kill (I know I couldn't have pulled that shot off again that day, but maybe now after shootind her for a year) The very next day I take a good looking Whitetail (4X5...150 class) with her @ 316 yards. No need explaining why I now have three, and still shopping.

Offline Norseman112

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« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2006, 02:42:18 AM »
Mac,
I understand what your saying :D

North that is one heck of a shot on a wolf! Sure makes one bond with a new handi  :-) .  We are starting to get more wolves around here where I live, but they are protected.  I still go after yotes though, guess its time to get my callers out.

John

Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2006, 04:25:01 AM »
North...a  good 528 yard shot on a wolf is phonominal...and this is one of the rifles in question??????

Leave well enough alone my friend and just enjoy what you have...atleast until your accuracy starts sufferering...

Have a Great 1 :D

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline MSP Ret

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NEW HANDI RIFLES: Tweak em or shoot em???
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2006, 04:41:35 AM »
I must agree...here was the initial statement and question...

"I've got three new handis in the last year, and I reload for all three. I'm not the world's greatest bench shooter, but all shoot sub 1" groups. Should I leave well enough alone or polish bores, add rubber washers, etc, etc.???", that coupled with a 528 yard shot on a wolf and a 316 yard shot on a deer? And both one shot kills...

the answer is pure and simple...Leave well enough alone!!!....I'm surprised you even asked the question!!!

....<><.... :grin:
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley