Author Topic: American Pioneer Powder vs. Triple 7 and July 4th questions (Read 1241 times)

Smokepole cowboy · « **on:** January 30, 2006, 02:13:05 PM »

I have an Encore 209X50 magnum. I have been using 100 grains ofTriple 7 and Hornady 250 SST ML. This gave me excellent accuracy, however with the crud ring, I could only load one shot before cleaning. To load a second shot without cleaning required a range rod and a 20 once hammer. I only tried that twice. Once with Winchester 209 primers and once with the Remington Kleanbore muzzleloader primers. No difference.

I purchased a bottle of American Pioneer Powder sticks and Powerbelt 223 grain aerotips. I can load 3 shots before cleaning easily with just the ramrod, no short starter or palm saver needed. I could feel a little resistance loading the 3rd shot, but still no problem seating it. I just couldn't get the groups below 3 to 4 inch range. Always a bit of a flyer, sometimes on the first shot with the clean barrel, sometimes the second or third shot.

I tried my Hornady 250 SST ML with the APP sticks. Wow was I impressed. While they load harder than the Powerbelts, I could shoot 3 shots without cleaning. Never could I do that with the 777. As far as accuracy, the "bad" group was 1 5/8. Smallest group was 1" with 2 of the 3 shots cutting the same hole. This was with the Remington Kleanbore 209 muzzleloader primer. Hard to tell how good this could of been if there had been a benchrest shooter behind the trigger. Clean up was fast, easy and clean. I am a new APP convert. I would like to have a setup with the Powerbelts that worked near this good.

Now that I have almost a full box of 777 to get rid of, what is the best way to shoot them for the 4th of July? Do I need any kind of wad after the pellets or do I just drop a coulple of them down the barrel and watch the show? Also I have some loose 777, would it work to use some of that first in the barrel before the pellet? I am never going to use it at the range or hunting again, so I might as well get rid of it somehow.

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2006, 02:34:10 PM »

I have had a similar problem in my T/C black diamond. The old clean shot was great, every thing went south when I went to 3x7 and 209's. My call on it was its not the powder but the 209's. To much blast for a very small hole to ignite the powder. At the range sighting in a scope I was running a solvent patch after every shot, followed by dry patch's. On the 8 or 9 shot the bolt stuck, would not move forward. Took it apart and very much black stuff on the bolt. The 209 is way to much and it discharges back. Do a google for Variflame it will work for your gun but uses a small pistol/rifle primer.
Jim

samchap · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2006, 04:08:55 PM »

I shoot a Rem 700 ml and have had challenges with pellets and #11 mag caps, in the past. I've heard stories of others who have had trouble igniting pellets too. I made a decision to use powder with #11 mag caps and have not had a problem with ignition or poor grouping the past two years. Powder id not a problem to handle or deal wioth. I do not need a long range flat shooting bullet so I use 90 grains of t7 with a 375 grain buffalo ssb. This plenty of hunting power plus good accuracy.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2006, 02:03:52 AM »

I have had 4 Encore M/L barrels and I can always get 4 or 5 shots before cleaning with triple7. I don't use the 209 primers but a 25 ACP breech plug. But either the 209 or the 25 ACP did not make it too difficult to reload. As far as getting rid of your triple7, find a friend that uses it and give it to him. No use wasting it just because you could not get it to shoot.
Have you considered trying the 25 ACP breech plug. I can shoot 10 plus times before having to swab the bore, and I am using the PR 195 gr. duplex sabots.

slave · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2006, 09:21:29 AM »

I had a issue with the AP sticks. I do not know if it was a defect or just the way the sticks are made. I shot a smoldering chunck of a stick 50yds. On many of the shots I seen a portion of the AP leaving unburnt. It was a new container opend that day. The packing was dry or looked to be. I thought that may have been why the velosites were so much lower than with seven. I have not shot any AP powder and I never purchased any more sticks.

poncaguy · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2006, 12:53:21 PM »

I have the 25acp in my Encore 209x50 and use Winchester 209 primers in my Omega Z5. Both shoot very well with 120 grains of AP FFG or 3 777 pellets and 295 and 348 Powerbelts. I had misfires with the new Remington ML 209's.

Carroll B · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2006, 01:33:13 PM »

Like smokepole I have given up on 777 powder. I need a 2 pound hammer to get the second powerbelt down on top of the powder. A second shot in a hunting situation is almost impossible. I have been wanting to try AP powder since reading about it in the Feb issue of American Rifleman but haven't yet. I finished out the season with Pyrodex in my Omega knowing I could take a second shot if needed. Rather then go to the 25 acp conversion I'd rather change powders.

slave · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2006, 03:29:52 PM »

I can load 3 times with 250gr shock waves on top of 115gr 777. The 3rd is tough. The barnes will load a tad easer on the 3rd. I am sure I could shot 5 power belts on seven without swabing my encore. If I got a beter group with AP I might give up the extra 200fps I get from seven.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2006, 04:18:13 PM »

Quote from: Carroll B

Like smokepole I have given up on 777 powder. I need a 2 pound hammer to get the second powerbelt down on top of the powder. A second shot in a hunting situation is almost impossible. I have been wanting to try AP powder since reading about it in the Feb issue of American Rifleman but haven't yet. I finished out the season with Pyrodex in my Omega knowing I could take a second shot if needed. Rather then go to the 25 acp conversion I'd rather change powders.

You don't know what you are missing. I have sat on the bench and shot 10 times before I even ran a wet patch down my barrel. I am using PR duplex sabots, triple7 and even after the 10th shot I really did not need to clean the barrel, I just did it. The 25 ACP alterative is great. I will never again shoot a 209 primer. I have quit a few of my friends shooting the triple7 and the 25 ACP conversion.