Primers need two hits

[SteveAZ]

Sunday was the second outing for Contender #2. Stainless with a 10" 22 Hornet barrel S4xxx serial number. The gun is used but very low mileage, less than one factory box of cartridges fired. I loaded 50 pieces of new Remington brass. The brass was neck sized (Redding s type neck die)with a .238 bushing (.224 + .0085 neck thickness X 2 = .241-.003=.238) and the expander button measures .221. The load was 7 gr Vihta Vouri 110, simular to H 110 speed, Sierra 50 gr Blitz 1340 and Remington 7 1/2 small rifle benchrest primers. The bullets were set longish, .003 jam into the leade hoping to hold the case back so it would expand well to fill the chamber. I plan to neck size only until they won't chamber with reasonable force.

Here's the problem, 18 out of the 20 rounds I fired required two hits of the firing pin to ignite. The first hit left a small indetent in the primer. All 18 fired on the second hit. 2 of the 20 fired on the first hit. All performed well, that is they hit the target (silhouettes) if I did my part.

The first time out I had fired 7 of someone elses reloads. All performed properly. They were loaded with small pistol primers. Federal 105M.

Anyone have experience with small rifle or Remington small rifle primers not firing in a 22 Hornet?

It was suggested I try small pistol primers which I'll do. Any other info?

Thanks, Steve AZ

[HBL]

I had the same problem when I first loaded for my 22 hornet. Primers are not the problem. Headspace is.

Seat the bullet just off the lands. It should work fine then. Even though there is not much there, the hornet, if you want to extend the brass life, needs to headspaced on the shoulder. Seating the bullet to extend in to the lands does not allow for the needed shoulder support.

[lakota]

I once had a problem like this in a 41 mag. Someone suggested that my primers were not seated to the appropriate depth.This was when I was a beginner and I was loading with the Lee loader and it was very easy to screw up primer seating. I am glad those Lee Loader days are gone! This person told me that the first firing pin strike seated the primer down to where it was supposed to be and the second strike set it off. I started making sure that all my primers were seated deep enough and it seemed to stop the problem.

Scott.

[KN]

Your round is too tight in the chamber, Not allowing the gun to lock up properly. Back the bullet off the lands and full lenth size your cases at least for the first firing.  KN

[BCB]

SteveAZ,

I believe you will find KN's reply to be on the right track or possibly even the solution.  I also have similar problems if I seat cast bullets to be jammed into the rifling when I close the action.  As KN indicated, full-length size, seat the bullet a bit shorter, and fire.  Then you could possible neck-size and seat the bullets to "just touch" and not jam into the rifling.  Might solve your problems.  Good-luck...BCB

[Joe Kool]

I found the 22 Hornet did not give good accuracy headspaced on the shoulder. The shoulder is too shallow and the firing pin blow drives the shoulder into the chamber cushioning the blow, and miss fires resault. I was disappointed with the accuracy because I read that the 22 Hornet was super accurate in the contender. Just when I was about to give up, when I read somewhere that the best accuracy is achived by headspacing on the rim. That made a world of differance, the groups shrank to under a half an inch at 100 yds. Keep the bullet about .030" off the rifling, as so not to head space on the bullet. WW 680, a 45gr Horandy bullet and a Winchester 6.5 primer is a super load, but you can't buy WW 680 any more.  

[Graycg]

Ahhhh, the 22 Hornet issue rears its ugly head once again,
   SteveAZ, I have been through this issue at length, both with the hornet and the 35 remington.  My cure for the hornet was to full length size the cases first time out, even if new cases, and then seat the bullets just off the rifling. After that I use the Lee collet die to resize the cases.  If the cases get tough to chamber after a few loadings, then I go back to full length for that case.  If you try to jam the bullet into the rifling you will have nothing but problems.  With your redding die you may need to use a different sized bushing if seating the bullets deeper doesn't work for you.  
  There is the off chance of a problem with the frame, a good detailed cleaning of the action, especially the interlock might also be helpful.

  I hope  you solve your problems and have lots of fun with that Hornet, life is too short to not have your gun go bang...especially in front of witnesses!! :wink:

regards,
 Graycg

[Ken55]

SteveAZ:  Do you have any other barrels ?  If so does this happen with    them ?  I had a simular problem with my Contender, it would dent the       primers, but had to be struck multi times.  Took gun to a local gunsmith,   who replaced hammer spring (which T/C paid for), gun goes off first time  every time now......

[Crayfish]

Garycg - Just curious, but what was your misfire cure for the 35Remington?  I've got one that is giving me fits.  I'm on the verge of a rechamber or getting rid of it.  I like the caliber, but not this particular barrel!  (Super 14)

Thanks ... Crayfish

[SteveAZ]

I want to thank all who took the time to reply to my post. I'd heard of the headspacing fun to be had with the Hornet.

My hope was that by jamming the bullet I could fire form the cases as they were brand new. Afterwards, once the cases were properly formed to the I could headspace off of the rim or sholder. .

It seems as though the neck tension is not sufficient to allow the firing pin to sufficiently strike the primer.

I'll try seating the bullets just off the leade. I'm hoping that they will then light off consistantly and the case will expand to fill the chamber.

Thanks again, SteveAZ

[Graycg]

Crayfish,
   You have a PM.

graycg

[The Dean]

I have this problem with my Contender when I shoot it with the 22lr barrel. Changed ammo from WW to Eley with the same results. I thought that maybe since the rimfire spaces on the rim that a change in ammo would help. I have not had this problem with centerfire ammo even with a heavier primer. Any suggestions?

[KN]

Is it showing A light hit?  KN

[The Dean]

Yes it is nick the rim slightly. I usually rotate it in the chamber and it fires.

[Steve P]

Excellent places to start looking mentioned previously.

 If those options do not cure the problem, then it is very likely the action is not closing far enough for the locking lugs on the barrel to trip the butterfly in the frame.  This can allow the hammer to drop, but not with sufficient force to fire.  To check this, try closing action without ammo.  Does gun feel like it closes different?  Hear that sharpe click when it closes?  Now try with ammo.  Hear the same click?  Have to close if a little firmer or even slam it a little harder?  On some of my fireform loads I have to very FIRMLY close the action.  If it release the trigger, I squeeze the action release lever, then close the action without ever really opening it.  Some of my match .22 ammo has so much lube on it that it builds up after about 10 rounds.  You have to firmly close action, release, and close again to fire.  This is due to the size of the ammo.  The .22 ammo you can't do a whole lot except to change to different brand of ammo.  Hornet and other ammo should not do this once fire formed and properly sized for your barrel.  Once brass is fire-formed, I use the barrel and fired brass to adjust my sizing dies.  I want that brass sized just enough so my action closes with that sharpe click of locking lugs tripping the butterfly.

Hope this resolves the problems.

Steve