GPS failure.

[tucoblue]

After three hunting seasons and several geo-cache finds I am extremely confident in my Etrex Camo. Now that I have that "Feel Good" confidence I wonder about the unit failing. Does this happen often? What would cause a failure? What fails in the unit? Anything I can do to minumize the chance of a failure?

I appreciate any thoughts, Tucoblue.

[victorcharlie]

I myself have never heard of a failure "in the woods".  That said, it is an electronic device and subject to fail!  My guess is that hard knocks would not be good for the unit.......the unit is designed to withstand a little moisture, but keeping it dry would be a good thing.

Good question......maybe someone can clue us in on the type of failures that occur with hand helds......

[Siskiyou]

A good topic.

1.  Protect it from external impact.  The screen appears to be the weak point.  I have heard a number of compliants regarding damaged screens.  PDA screen protectors maybe an answer.  I carry my gps in a protective camera case.  There are a number of cases on the market that are sized right, and the cost is low.  Both my Garmin Legend and the 76C work while in the closed case.  The case protects it from impact and moisture.  Food for thought.  During the hay day of the compass I might check it a couple of times during the day while out hunting.  The rest of the time it was in a protective shirt or vest pocket.  The object of the day was the hunt, not a compass course.  I feel the same about the gps.  I will stop and check it, and then put it back in the case.  It does not need to be banging around, hanging up on the brush, and beating on logs like a drumstick.

Geocaching can be compared to running a compass course.  You are not worried about scaring game.  Most likely the gps will be in hand, or placed in a protective pocket depending on how close you are to the cache.  


2.  Leaking batteries might be the biggest killer of handheld gps units.  If you are not going to use your gps and  it is loaded with alkaline batteries, remove them and place them in a zip lock bag.  Alkaline or heavy duty  batteries sold by $ Stores and like maybe close to the end of their shelve life at time of purchase.  I believe that you get fresher bulk batteries from Costco and Sam's Club because of their high volume sales.  

3.  If your gps takes a swim in the river.  Turn off the power if it is on.  Air dry the unit.  Make sure the batteries are dry.  Do not place in the oven or Microwave.  A hair dryer on low heat can be used with caution.  Drying time maybe an important element.  While many units are listed as being water proof for 30 minutes do not wreak a gps because you are in a hurry.

4.  Do not place a gps in a location that it maybe damaged by others.  While living in Mexico a friend picked up another gringo friend and gave him a ride back to the village.  After letting the guy out he discovered his passenger had been setting on his older Garmin Gps45. This old unit has an external antenna.  The wire lead was broken off.  The cost of repair by Garmin was more then the cost of buying a new gps.

I stopped at a local trail head and spotted a group of geocachers.  One was swinging an eTrex around by the lanyard.  A design for disaster.  When I orientated grandchildren to the Garmin Legend one of the first things I tell them is the lanyard is to retain control of the unit and it is not to be used to swing the unit around with.

5.  Protect it from theft and sun damage.  If you live or travelling in a hot climate exposer to the Sun radiating on a windsheild may damage your gps when parked.  If it gets that hot while your in the vehicle you no longer need to worry about the gps.

If your gps is visible in a parked vehicle it may invite theft.  Trailheads in recreation areas are subject to a lot of smash and grabs.

[Daveinthebush]

My Garmin has been real faithful.  Only downfall was when the internal battery died and I had to send it back to the manufacture for replacement.

[slipshod]

Last May my Magellan 315 failed to give me good readings.It actually went wacko.In 2 years of use it had never failed to give a good reading.The bearing has always been right but this particular time it constantly changed as much as 20 degrees in both directions.FortunatelyI was able to navigate without it.I do not know what caused this but I consider it a failure because it was totally unusable that day.Slipshod

[tucoblue]

Daveinthebush, "Internal Battery"? Don't know anything about this. Should I send my unit to Garmin periodically for replacement? How long will the internal battery last? I suppose if it goes bad all waypoints are lost.

[Daveinthebush]

Yes my Garmin II+ had an internal Iridium(?) battery.  It quit so I emailed the service department at Garmin, recieved approval to send it in and did so.  I think it cost between $60-90 for the work.  They replaced the battery, upgraded the internal software and sent it back.  Good as new. I think they even replaced the face plate because it was scratched.

I was satisified with the service.  The II+ is an older unit but perfectly serviceable for my basic needs.  The computer inteface allowed me to uplink waypoints on the ocean to my marine navigation program and vice versa.

[Siskiyou]

You need not worry about losing your waypoints, tracks, and routes in your Camo eTrex.  Gps units are a rapidly changing technology.  If your eTrex is stored for a long period without it's AA power source it's internal clock may revert back to the land of Oz.(Central Time) But your data is still stored in the unit.  

The clock fix is simple enough.  Power-up your unit and place it in a location where it can receive Satellite signals.  The clock will be re-set and you are ready to go.  Currently the gps/fishfinder is off my boat and setting on a shelve in the garage.  There is no power source connected to it.  Before I take off to go fishing in another month I will have the unit on the boat and fired up so that it can find itself.  Should I make the long trip to the Delta for fishing and camping I will again fire up the gps/fishfinder while setting up camp.  That way the unit has located itself and is operating correctly when I hit the water.  Just for information people get lost in the Delta all the time because it is a thousand mile maze of channels and levies.  Oops sorry about the side trip.

While I type this I have an  eTrex Legend setting on a window seal recieving a number of satellites.  WAAS is enabled.  The purpose is to insure the Satellite information (clock) is up-to-date.  So from a clock stand point you my have to re-initialize your eTrex Camo as you did after purchase.  The clock tells the unit what satellites to look for at what time from your position.  This information speeds up the lockup.  When new satellites are activated the information is transmitted to your gps so it can be viewed.

As I posted earlier I do not recommend storing your gps with alkaline batteries because leaking batteries can destroy your unit.  I am not aware of a leaking battery problem with NiMH batteries.  A unit stored with fully charged 2500 NiMH batteries should hold up for a longer period of time.  Be aware that over a long period of time the NiMH batteries will self discharge.

Daveinthebush I am glad you are still hanging in there with your Garmin II+.  It labels you as a pioneer gps owner.  We live in a throw away society.  A few years ago a government radio tech told me that in many cases it is more cost effective to dump some radios and purchase a new one.  The labor cost to repair exceeded the value of the radio.  The same truth holds with gps units.  During Christmas both the basic eTrex and the eXplorist 100 could be had for $69.00 on sale.  The eTrex Legend which sold for a $250 four years ago commonly sells for $149.00.  And has been seen on sale for $139.00.  These prices bring a full warranty, and software updates.  But at times it is worth fixing the older unit.  It may fit a niche that a newer model unit may not fill.

[tucoblue]

Siskiyou, any thoughts on the "INTERNAL battery" Daveinthebush was referring to? Will I have to send the unit to Garmin for periodic replacement? How often? If it goes bad will I THEN loose my waypoints?

Many thanks, Tucoblue.[/i][/b]

[Daveinthebush]

I lost all memory in mine when the battery went.  I was luckly enough to have a computer interface and most of the points saved on a marine navigation program.  

I did a little research last night and found out that on some units the internal battery is soldiered in.  So you would need a desoldiering tool and a soldiering gun.  So I opted to send it in.

[Siskiyou]

I will continue my research but the new gps units use a different type of memory to store the users data.  In some cases it is flash memory or some other mode that does not require a power source.  I have found a number of sources regarding eTrex models that state it is not a concern.  The small doubt in my mind is caused by the fact that while other models of the eTrex are mention, the eTrex Camo is not mention.  I suspect that most article address the higher volume units or lump all eTrex units together.

The history of gps units is rather short. The first model I encountered in the late 80's had two channels.  The GpsII had eight channels, and the Gps II Plus that Dave has is one of the early 12 channel models.  It does not have a WAAS option.  These early models had a built in battery to save user data.  There are webpages telling the user how to open the eTrex case.  Last night I did a little research regarding battery issue.  Non of the pages I reviewed address a data storage battery nor do they show a picture of one.  You can go to the Garmin webpage and send a e-mail to their support people with your question.  If you do that we would be interested in the answer.

[Siskiyou]

tucoblue:  You might want to check out your owners manual page viii.  Look under the storage heading.  Again I "think" your unit uses Flash Memory.

Research shows that the GPS II + and the GPS III had problems with a batch of faulty Lithium batteries.  These batteries are normally refreshed by AA operating batteries. Again these are a older generation and did not have Flash Memory.  Best charging method is by fresh AA batteries.

While Garmin units have a one year warranty, they did not do him right if his unit was less then 5 years old.  If he bought it back in 1997 what was in another Century he recieved fair value.

[tucoblue]

Siskiyou, as you have suggested I have contacted Garmin. Nervous person aren't I? The Etrex Camo does indeed have "Flash Memory" (Whatever THAT is) and has no backup battery. The F.M. permanantly stores user info (Per Kyle B. at Garmin). Looks like I can find something else to worry about. Many thanks to all for your input, Tucoblue.

[Siskiyou]

A good question regarding a rapidly changing technology.  If you need something else to worry about you can buy a Gps II Plus or Gps III on e-bay. :lol:

[Siskiyou]

Slipshod:  There are times when gps units act strange.  I do not know if this is caused by magnitic interference, radio transmissions or some other source.  Remember Irag bought gps jammers from the Russians and the French.  Another reason for a map and compass.

Military gps units have built in jammer protection.  I suspect a smart kid could go to the internet and find instructions on how to build  a unit which would effectively jam civilian band gps signels.  Of course his jammer signel can be traced.

[Daveinthebush]

If you want real fun try using a chart plotter GPS on Prince William Sound and having your boat symbol suddenly move 100 yards over on land.  Our land, is never soft, just solid rock.  Although I love the chart plotter, I take rely on my instincts and visual senses to let me know if the unit is correct.

Now maybe it might better as I had to have the quick release mounting pins replaced and they upgraded the software also.  I will see in April when I get the boat back in the water.

[Daveinthebush]

If you want real fun try using a chart plotter GPS on Prince William Sound and having your boat symbol suddenly move 100 yards over on land.  Our land, is never soft, just solid rock.  Although I love the chart plotter, I take rely on my instincts and visual senses to let me know if the unit is correct.

Now maybe it might better as I had to have the quick release mounting pins replaced and they upgraded the software also.  I will see in April when I get the boat back in the water.

[victorcharlie]

There a piece of electronic equipment, thus suspect to failure at any time, hopefully, not when we need them the most.  If my life depended on it, I think I'd have at least 2......redundancy ya know?

That, I suspect, is why Siskoui says don't leave the compass at home!

[Siskiyou]

I was just reading that Marine amplified TV antenna's sold by Tandy, Shakespeare, and Radio Shack(tandy) have been identified by the Coast Guard as interferring with gps units.  I guess Dave is watching to much tv while out fishing.  Dave is there a balancing act when mounting a radar antenna, a gps antenna, and VhF antenna on a boat?

I have also heard of certain land base TV amplifiers interferring with gps signals.  There are all kinds of radio transmitters in our world.  Last year a few of my walks were near a multi-agency emergency dispatch center.  The center operates on a number of radio frequencys.  I was teaching a couple of people how to use a gps.  At no time did the gps act up.  The assumption is the different transmitters were operating properly.

I know that my gps has acted up a couple of times.  I need to make a few notes and see if there are common factors.  Could it be the Cell phone tower, or some other source.  Could the generator at a dam create a magnetic force that would interfere with my gps.  I was not far from powerlines, and eletricity was being generated at the dam.  The government has funded studies concerning the interference between Ulta-Wide Band(UWB) and gps receivers.

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