Author Topic: FFFG reduced to FFFFG??? (Read 1036 times)

River runner · « **on:** January 17, 2003, 03:53:09 PM »

Here I go again; I figure I should have that squirrel gun done in about another week, had the second session of stock oil tonight, sure is purty. but I'm having trouble locating just a can of 4F powder for the pan, it don't look like it's gonna take much, so I don't want to buy a whole case of 4F. An old chrony of mine suggested I could take 3F and use my wifes wood rolling pin when she aint home, and use some wax paper, pour a bit on the paper and roll it out till it's nice and fine like 4F. Tell me now does this seem feasible? May have to take a trip to the big city otherwise. Let's hear it ok? RR

fredj · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2003, 06:02:29 PM »

River Runner- Call a BP distributor, none of them require you buy a case
of one grade exclusively, if the one you're dealing with is requiring this you are dealing with an idiot or a crook, I've never ordered a case of just one brand and grade except on one occaison where 3 of my friends and I just wanted some additional FFg Elephant. One LB of FFFFg should last you
a couple of years unless your shooting a flinter more than once a week
all year long, for instance my next case will be about half Schuetzen FFg
with a LB or 2 of FFFg and 1 LB of Fg and the other half will be Swiss
FFg and 1 1/2 FG and perhaps an LB of FFFFg because it's the only pan
powder I'll use now because it's so fast and hot it made my flinters considerably more reliable and visibly faster. I have on a couple of occaisons forgot my priming horn and just used FFFg instead, it works OK
I also have one of those Cal-Graf BP screening devices and used to get all my pan powder from the dust and fines that went through the smallest screen, back in the day guys like Simon Kenton, Boone etc on the frontier
usually dispensed with pan powder altogether they'd just have the vent
large enough that the propellant would fill the pan when they tipped the rifle, I think the brief delay with the fuse effect was considerably less of a problem than a miss-fire.
fredj

lostid · « **Reply #2 on:** January 15, 2006, 06:06:46 PM »

that will never work!
Using rolling pins or spoons to gind powder to a finer grade!! dangerouis!

dodd3 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2006, 02:07:13 AM »

ithink one of the posts here said they used 3f for priming as well as for the main charge, cant remember who it was could have bin round ball but not sure would that work lostid i value your experties.

bernie

captchee · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2006, 02:59:28 AM »

3F can be used for pan powder and some say they see no difference in ignition times, I myself use 4F in my pan. As the fellow above said ,if the company you by powder will not mix cases then its time for a new company . I have not found powders harder to get just harder to get locally. The little guys cant compete with internet sales , at the same time meet the federal reg and keep the cost down . For every case I purchase I order at least 1 lb of 4F. 4F goes a long , long ways and one can should last about that long or longer .
As to rolling your own . Yes you can . Is it safe ? Well that depends on how you do it . We used 2 or 3 round balls in a small wood container. Put about 30 grains in at a time and shake it .
Another way ,If you watch you will see small wooden black powder pedestal sets sold now and then on places like e-bay . The trick is to not get in a hurry , be safe about it and keep any and all ignition sources completely clear as you work as well as keeping the amount of powder your working on small this way if something does happen your less likely to have a serious injury.

Now how well does this work ,,, well not to bad except for a couple things .
1) your grain size is not consistent. You will have powder from 9F down to the grain you started with . BP is sized and made through a screening process to assure the best consistence possible .
2) the powder you have just re sized is broken and thus does not have a completely glazed surface . What this causes is the powder to be more acceptable to moister and if the humidity is real high you can find that you pan will turn to muck in considerable more time then what manufactured 3 or 4F in your pan will

Well there you go some things to think about . My only sure advice would be to make sure if you decide to grind your own that you dont do it in anything that could create a static spark . Many now believed that static electricity can not set of BP even at finer photo grades like 7 -9 F. I myself am not sure I subscribe to that line of thought but

? But it cant hurt to play it on the safe side right ?

roundball · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2006, 04:03:37 AM »

This thread was actually posted 3 years ago...I gues if the poster is still alive his approach must have worked...
:-D

teech · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2006, 07:16:42 PM »

I heard of making ffff by putting your fff in a film canister with a round ball and shaking it up.
I've also used fff for priming and haven't noticed the difference.

horseman308 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2006, 01:28:43 PM »

You can absolutely use 3f to prime your pan. In fact, if you're hunting in areas where the humidity is really high or on a rainy/drizzly day, it works better than 4f because it won't absorb moisture as quickly. I haven't noticed any difference in ignition speed since I started doing this. I've found that the biggest factor in getting good ignition speed is actually keeping the flint really sharp and cleaning any fouling off of it and the frizzen after each shot. After that, the degree of incorporation of your powder isn't such a big deal, as long as its dry. Also, you don't have to fool with an additional piece of equipment while out in the field. 4f is probably still the way to go if you are doing a lot of target shooting, and you shoot immediately after you prime; but if you are going to wait a while (like for the next squirrel or that deer) before your shot, stick with 3f.

roundball · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2006, 02:00:47 PM »

All I use for prime is Goex 4F...I'm just finishing up my 2nd pound in 4 years...use it at the range and for all hunting...no problems at all.

When hunting I just refresh the prime every hour...a pan primer slips right into a shirt pocket and you don't even know it's there...a simple small wrist movement and the rifle is reprimed across my lap...instant ignition every time I've dropped the hammer on a buck...

horseman308 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2006, 11:25:14 AM »

Sounds like a good idea. Is that an antler priming horn at the bottom? I've thougth of making one from that.

roundball · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2006, 01:07:16 PM »

Quote from: horseman308

Sounds like a good idea. Is that an antler priming horn at the bottom? I've thougth of making one from that.

You can buy the components from most BP suppliers.

The rear is a 3/8" threaded seat & screw in stopper;
The front is a 5/16" (I think) assembly that has a 3grn spring loaded dispenser;

The antler primer holds about 80grns 4F;
The priming horn holds about 250grns 4F;

A simple tether cord to the shirt pocket's button hole and I never lose it, or drop it out of a tree stand, etc

lostid · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2006, 04:40:37 PM »

Quote from: roundball

This thread was actually posted 3 years ago...I gues if the poster is still alive his approach must have worked...
:-D

I brought this thread to "Life" on purpose. Just in hopes too show new members how valuble the archives are and can be,, for shared information from experianced shooters...
p.s. riverrunner is ok. he's retired Cali PD, moved to Nevada someplace, and enjoys the cowboy action shooting stuff.
p.p.s. he never did grind the powder,,,he just bought some. he realized that Saftey, Quality and Consistancy was formost in the acurracy he desired.

Good thread huh!?

lostid · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2006, 04:42:43 PM »

Quote from: roundball

This thread was actually posted 3 years ago...I gues if the poster is still alive his approach must have worked...
:-D

I brought this thread to "Life" on purpose. Just in hopes too show new members how valuble the archives are and can be,, for shared information from experianced shooters...
p.s. riverrunner is ok. he's retired Cali PD, moved to Nevada someplace, and enjoys the cowboy action shooting stuff.
p.p.s. he never did grind the powder,,,he just bought some. he realized that Saftey, Quality and Consistancy was formost in the acurracy he desired.

Good thread huh!?

lostid · « **Reply #13 on:** January 18, 2006, 04:45:44 PM »

Quote from: roundball

This thread was actually posted 3 years ago...I gues if the poster is still alive his approach must have worked...
:-D

I brought this thread to "Life" on purpose. Just in hopes too show new members how valuble the archives are and can be,, for shared information from experianced shooters...
p.s. riverrunner is ok. he's retired Cali PD, moved to Nevada someplace, and enjoys the cowboy action shooting stuff.
p.p.s. he never did grind the powder,,,he just bought some. he realized that Saftey, Quality and Consistancy was formost in the acurracy he desired.

Good thread huh!?

chickenlittle · « **Reply #14 on:** January 20, 2006, 03:50:54 PM »

Quote from: roundball

...a pan primer slips right into a shirt pocket and you don't even know it's there...

I have a couple of the small brass pan primers with two types of mechanisms on them. I've found both eventually quit working properly because the mechanisms got gummed up and the pan powder would dribble out, including when in my pocket. Not wanting to set my clothes dryer on fire, I started keeping them in a little ziplock bag.

I used 3F to prime this season and it worked perfectly during practice and when unloading after a day's hunting. If I'd a known that would work when I got into flintlocks, I would have never bought any 4F. The only problem I had was that the 3F seemed to jump around more when I dispensed it out of the pan primer. A few grains would get into the mating surface between the frizzen and the lock instead of staying in a nice little pile in the pan like 4F will.

roundball · « **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2006, 04:48:16 AM »

Quote from: chickenlittle

Quote from: roundball
...a pan primer slips right into a shirt pocket and you don't even know it's there...

"...I have a couple of the small brass pan primers with two types of mechanisms on them. I've found both eventually quit working properly because the mechanisms got gummed up..."

Yes, that comes from picking up BP residue from repeated use in the pan...just need to unscrew the tip and hold it under a hot water faucet and use a pipe cleaner to get it clean again.

To prevent that build up, particularly during humid weather at the range, I just run a pipe cleaner in and out of the plunger every now and then to keep it clean.

Personally, I like the shot to shot precision of the 3 grn plunger dispenser...fills my pans exactly half full which is what I prefer for my fastest ignition.