Author Topic: 700 BDL 30-06 groups ?  (Read 919 times)

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Offline cynrays

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700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« on: January 10, 2006, 08:19:31 AM »
I can shoot a three inch group where the bullets all touch with 54 grains of H4850 using 180 grain Remington Bulk Bullets. Then after three shots the barrel starts to heat up and the bullets strike maybe one and a half to two inches apart. This is at 100 yards from a bench.
Do any of you have the same problem?
Seems that the gun would shoot better than that after it heats up. It is not so hot that I can not touch it but is pretty hot. Is this normal for a rifle?
The scope is on tight and the mounts are also.

Offline cynrays

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700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2006, 10:45:22 AM »
That should have been H 4350 instead of H 4850...

Offline killdeer

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700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2006, 11:37:11 AM »
Yes, accuracy can suffer as the barrel warms up.  You may help this by floating the barrel and or bedding the action. For what you described I would try to float the barrel first as it is simple and easily reversible.  Also take a look to make sure the stock is inletted properly and the barrel channel is not touching the barrel as it warms up and the action screws are torqued properly. Hope this helps, if heat is causing something to touch it should but accuracy generally suffers as temp climbs. :D

Offline cynrays

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700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2006, 01:23:09 PM »
Killdeer, can you explain what floating is. I am new to this...

Offline Coyote Hunter

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700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2006, 02:15:09 PM »
If you loop a dollar bill around your barrel and try to slide it down between the barrel and the stock you’ll most likely find it won’t go because the barrel is resting on the stock.  Floating the barrel means modifying things so the barrel does not touch the stock.  This is accomplished by sanding down the barrel channel.

The process is simple and does not require a gunsmith.  All my rifles get this treatment, in fact, before they go to the range.  You will ned the following:
Screwdriver (to remove the stock)
Sandpaper
Magic Marker (to loop the sandpaper around while sanding)
Polyurethane (to reseal the wood)

1. Use a dollar bill to determine where the stock and barrel tough.  Normally it is only at the tip of the stock.  You should be able to feed the bill under the barrel and out the other side below that point.

2. Remove the stock.  

3. Loop the sandpaper around the Magic Marker and start sanding.  I normally start with 80 or 100 grit.

4.  After a little sanding put the stock in place and hold it there with one hand while trying to slip the dollar bill under the barrel.  If you can run the bill down to the receiver you are done.  If not, keep sanding.

5.  Finish up with a finer grit if desired.

6. Take a rag and dip it in the polyurethane, then coat the bare wood.  No need to get a brush dirty for this job.

7. Allow the polyurethane to dry, then reassemble.  The dollar bill should still slide under the barrel to the receiver.  If not, more sanding is in order.

I’ve never had to resand after applying the polyurethane, but perhaps that is because I make sure the dollar bill slides freely the first time.


Floating a barrel should reduce stringing of shots, which is why I did it to my first centerfire in ’81.  Couldn’t zero that rifle because the longer I shot the more the bullets impacted high and left.  The wood stock was heating up and pushing the stock around.  Even with cold barrels the the stock can push the barrel around as it absorbs or gives up moisture from the air or as the temperature changes.  Floating the barrel fixes these problems.

But not without a cost.  A floated barrel may actually shoot larger groups than one that is not floated – the difference is that the floated barrel should eliminate stringing and place the groups in the same spot more consistently over time.  

If a rifle still isn’t accurate it may be necessary to bed the action and maybe the barrel.  Never had to go there, though, to get the accuracy I wanted.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline R.W.Dale

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Re: 700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2006, 02:15:45 PM »
Quote from: cynrays
I can shoot a three inch group where the bullets all touch with 54 grains of H4850 using 180 grain Remington Bulk Bullets. Then after three shots the barrel starts to heat up and the bullets strike maybe one and a half to two inches apart. This is at 100 yards from a bench.
Do any of you have the same problem?
Seems that the gun would shoot better than that after it heats up. It is not so hot that I can not touch it but is pretty hot. Is this normal for a rifle?
The scope is on tight and the mounts are also.



 How do you get all of the bullets to touch and still have a three inch group. :lol:  :D

Offline cynrays

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700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2006, 02:57:41 PM »
Krochus, that is after the initial first three shots. Sorry that I did not make that more clear. First three shots touching then 4 to forever are spread out...

Offline jro45

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700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2006, 02:17:08 AM »
I use IMR4350 in my 30/06 and my rifle will do the same thing. That 4350 powder is an accurate powder for the 30/06 and also my 300 Win Mag.
Beyond those three they all my a real nice group about 11/2" :D

Offline cynrays

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700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2006, 06:38:58 AM »
I have floated the barrel and it still does it. It is a Rem 700 BDL. I put a new Mueller on it and still the same thing.
JRO 45, what rifle are you shooting? I am about to change rifles I think.
I am leaning toward one of the new Stevens 200's...

Offline Don Fischer

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700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2006, 07:16:35 AM »
cynrays,

Getting a rifle to shoot can be real rewarding. There's more to check. Try different powders. Maybe some 4831 or some Win 760. Several different brands of 4831. I'm partial to IMR and H4831.

Check bedding. Tighten the front action screw, and rear, then slowly losen the front screw and look for the barrel to rise at the front of the stock, it shouldn't. Take the barrel action out of the stock to, it should lift out fairly easy. If it doesn't, take it to a gunsmith for bedding.

A correctly bedded rifle may not touch all the shot's but it should shoot pretty round groups. If your groups are stringing sideway's you might have the barrel bouncing off the barrel channel somewhere, would be on the side. A rifle with tension in the action will quite often string shot's up and down. If that's the case bedding the action may be the fix. If the shot's are just going random check tension on the guard screws. They may be to tight or even to lose, they should be snug. As a last result your barrel may have missed or been improperly stress relieved. Many years ago it was common to have a barrel that wasn't stress relieved and after a few shot's they'ed walk bullets all over the paper. I doubt that's it but if it is, cryo freezing is supposed to fix it. I've  never felt the need to do that.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline jro45

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700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2006, 04:45:14 AM »
Quote from: cynrays
I have floated the barrel and it still does it. It is a Rem 700 BDL. I put a new Mueller on it and still the same thing.
JRO 45, what rifle are you shooting? I am about to change rifles I think.
I am leaning toward one of the new Stevens 200's...



I've have the Rem 700 BDL with an E.R. Shaw barrel { shot orignal barrel out } barrel is floated. Shooting 150 gr bullets made by Hornady. :D

Offline cynrays

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700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2006, 10:47:52 AM »
I worked on the bedding some more last night and it is not stringing them now but the best is about one and a quarter inch at 100 yards.. I can live with that until I can get a Savage or one of the new Stevens 200. I probably will not miss any deer at 200 yards.

I have tried IMR 4895, IMR 4831 and H 4350.

Thanks for all your help. It was sure nice of you. ..

Offline Don Fischer

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700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2006, 11:39:42 AM »
cynrays,

You know, 1 1/4" at 100yds really ain't all that bad. You have a hunting rifle! Now that the stringing has quit, try changing bullet's.

I had a 7x57 years ago that I just couldn't get to shoot, tried everything. Finally tried roundnose bullets and the thing came alive. Used it like that for years, one of my all time favorite rifles.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline jro45

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700 BDL 30-06 groups ?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2006, 03:23:02 AM »
Talk about those round bullets [RN]. I loaded some up for my 338 RUM and shot them at 100 yds and they all went into the same hole. I went and looked couldn't figure where my rounds went only one hole so I went back and fired another round to a different spot. Thats when I found out where my rounds went. :D