Mixed emotions over my recent purchase.

[Moonlitin]

I bought my first NEF at the local hardware store.  It was a Pardner .410 for my son.  I gave it to him as a gift when he completed his hunter safety class.  Since then, I have picked up a couple more Pardners, a few Sportsters, and eventually a Handi .223, and they are all great firearms.  The guys at the hardware store were always very helpful.  Last fall some bad guys broke into their store one night and stole all of their handguns, so they decided to only sell shotguns and rifles.  Soon after that, they decided to get out of the firearms business entirely.  I'm guessing that had to do with their inability to compete with the discount pricing at the local Walmart, Dunhams, MC Sporting Goods, and even some of the internet stores.

The hardware store discounted their existing inventory by 20% to get rid of everything, and most of it is now gone.  I sort of had my eye on a Winchester Model 70 in 30-06, but even with the 20% discount it was much more expensive than our beloved Handi rifles.  While doing some research on the Model 70, I found a post right here at GBO (in the bolt action rifle forum) that mentioned a great clearance price at Walmart.

I called the local Walmart and discovered that they had a Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 with a Simmons 8-Point 3-9x40 scope in stock, and that it was "on clearance" but the clerk I spoke to did not know what the price was.  He said that it was not in the case and he had to scan the box to check the price.  I had to pick up a few other items, so while I was there I stopped in at the firearms counter and asked the clerk if he could check on the price.  He disappeared for a few minutes, and then came back to the counter with the rifle, scanned the box, and said "$150".  I calmy told him that I would take it, and I asked if they had any more, but it was their last one.

While we were doing the paper work, I decided that as soon as I got home I would call the other local Walmarts and find another rifle at that great price for my son.  I couldn't find another one, but while I was calling around, I realized that the local hardware store is getting out of the firearms business because of guys like me.

I work hard for my money, so I'm happy when I can find a great deal on a great rifle.  I do feel bad when I see the little shops closing because they can't compete with the big guys.

Moonlitin

[rifleman61]

hey my brother, don't worry about that
Remember this, the sole purpose of a business is to make a profit and nothing else.  When it can't offer goods and services at a reasonable price  that is profitable to it then it goes out of business and that's it simple. If there are bot profits there are no wages, no benefit plans, not nothing, especially no goods and services for sale.  The blessing of
"Wallie world" [as it is so sarcastically put] is that it avails the average American of goods, services, and a standard of living that he otherwise would not be able to afford.  Go for it and don't feel bad.
God bless

Anchor's Away/ Semper Fi
CPO Bull

[bladerunner]

rifleman61 wrote

hey my brother, don't worry about that
Remember this, the sole purpose of a business is to make a profit and nothing else. When it can't offer goods and services at a reasonable price that is profitable to it then it goes out of business and that's it simple. If there are bot profits there are no wages, no benefit plans, not nothing, especially no goods and services for sale. The blessing of
"Wallie world" [as it is so sarcastically put] is that it avails the average American of goods, services, and a standard of living that he otherwise would not be able to afford. Go for it and don't feel bad.
God bless

AMEN,Brother.......I buy where it is the cheapest.......one of the gunshops around me is cheaper than wally world....I buy from them all the time.....and some of the gun shops are TWICE the price...I know some shops have ALOT more overhead than others,but the one I'm talking about is OWNED by the gunshop...sooooo,no rent and they STILL want to rip me off....if they go out of bussiness,it serves them right!!!!

[Norseman112]

I wouldn't feel so bad, most gun shops will match wallie world. Enjoy your good find.

John

[MSP Ret]

If I could find one that would match that price on that Winchester 30-06 w/scope I'd buy 3!!! And I know just who each would go to!!!! Guys I know that deserve them but cannot at this time afford them. It might take me a while to pay off the credit card but it would sure be worth it to me!!!....<><.... :grin:

[Haywire Haywood]

I try to buy at a locally owned gun store, and am willing to spend a little more to do so but I won't go to extremes. If it's more than say... 10% (pulled dat number outo mah keester naturally   ) over Wally World, then WW would get the sale.  That said, I don't remember ever having bought a firearm there.  I've bought oodles of ammo there, but I don't remember any guns.

Ian

[Busta]

I try to buy at a locally owned gun store, and am willing to spend a little more to do so but I won't go to extremes. If it's more than say... 10% (pulled dat number outo mah keester naturally   ) over Wally World, then WW would get the sale.  That said, I don't remember ever having bought a firearm there.  I've bought oodles of ammo there, but I don't remember any guns.

Ian

If you ever bought one at Wally World, you would definitely remember the walk of shame. Everybody has to do it.

I have bought all my H&R/NEF's at a Sporting Goods Store except my daughters Pardner and my sons NWTF J.A.K.E.S. Topper Jr. Classic. My daughters Pardner was bought at Wally World and my sons TJC was bought at our NWTF Banquet back in '96. All mine are good ones because I got to check them out before purchasing and if I didn't like what came in I would reject it before purchase.

The Sporting Goods Store I purchase from will order any gun I want with just a phone call. When it comes in you get to check it out and if it doesn't pass inspection, I am not held to buying it. This is a service they offer to anyone and so far has worked out very well for me. They will notify you and hold it for you for a week, you don't even have to put anything down either. If you don't care for something about the gun it either goes on the shelf or if something was wrong with it safety wise it goes back. I had a 20 ga TDC that looked beautiful, the wood, blueing and everything except it had a crack all the way accross the rear of the  trigger guard. I still wanted it and would have called CS for a new trigger guard but they would not let me purchase it after I found it and pointed it out. This store has pretty good prices too, just a tad higher than Wally.

[quickdtoo]

I'm not praising Walmart here, but they did right by me when I ordered and received my 22-250 fluted Ultra, they had me inspect it and told me that if there was a problem, I could reject it and they would order another. Their paper work red tape is double redundant, but from what the manager explained to me, WM has no intentions of repeating the errors of the California stores and if all stores maintain good records and follow ATF regs, California stores will again sell firearms sometime in the next few years.

Another member here did reject a BC when he found the butt plate screws loose, they returned it and ordered him another.

The few mom and pop stores here charge equal or more than new prices on their used Handis, can't see spending that kinda money when there are much better prices to be had at WM or any other big discount stores like GI Joes, Sportsmans Warehouse or Fisherman's Marine.  

No Mike, I'm not including Marcus in the mom and pop stores, have never bought a gun from him..............yet!!!  :wink:

[sureshot2040]

as an aside to this thread
you did good buying a winchester as i just found out tonight that winchester is going under
this was just announced today i think
so you  might have inadvertantly purchased a collectable
sureshot

[buckmaster_kp]

Winchester going under!??! I will have to see that to believe it. Sure would be a shame to see that great, old gun company go under.  :cry:

[quickdtoo]

Unfortunately, it's true.

Winchester Rifles to Be Discontinued
Staff and agencies
18 January, 2006





By MATT APUZZO, Wed Jan 18, 4:06 PM ET

NEW HAVEN, Conn. - The traditional Winchester rifles carried by pioneers, movie stars and Wild West lawmen will be discontinued in March, a Belgian manufacturer said Wednesday, confirming the end of an American icon that became known as "The Gun that Won the West."

"The name will continue, but not with those traditional products," said Robert Sauvage, a spokesman for the Herstal Group, the Belgian company that owns U.S. Repeating Arms and the right to the Winchester name.

"Economically speaking, we cannot continue. We have lost a lot of money," Sauvage said.

Officials and union leaders said they hoped someone would buy the plant and continue building the traditional rifles, but the Winchester name wouldn‘t necessarily come with the factory. Such an arrangement would need to be worked out separately.

Sauvage said the Herstal Group wants to extend that right past 2007 but Olin has not decided whether to allow it. Spokeswoman Ann Pipkin said Olin is disappointed with Herstal‘s decision to close the plant and may sell the Winchester naming rights to someone else.

The Winchester model 1873 lever action rifle, popular among American frontiersmen at the end of the 19th century for its reliability, inspired the 1950 James Stewart film "Winchester ‘73."

President Teddy Roosevelt was also a Winchester devotee, using the 1895 model on his famous 1909 African safari, which historians credited with boosting the sale of Winchester sporting rifles.

"It‘s not unusual in my work, I‘ll talk to someone, they‘ll say, ‘I‘ve got my rifle that belonged to my grandfather. I‘m still using it,‘" Wilson said. "These things get recycled as long as you keep a gun clean and you look after it."

Others say it won‘t be the same.

"It would be like Chevrolet going out of business or Chevrolet being made in Japan or China," firearms historian Ned Schwing said. "Winchester is an American legend, whether you‘re a gun person or not."

http://www.leadingthecharge.com/stories/news-00126974.html

[quickdtoo]

Here's another....

http://espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/2006/0118/2297213.html

[Busta]

Winchester going under!??! I will have to see that to believe it. Sure would be a shame to see that great, old gun company go under.  :cry:

Here is another. There will be many more American Companies going under in the not so distant future, it's what happens when we don't BUY AMERICAN. Michigan used to be the "Auto Capital of the World", not hardly so anymore. Jobs are pouring out of Michigan so fast it would make your head swim. There are 9 houses on the market for sale for every 1 buyer. The company I work for, an Auto Supplier has been in business since 1873, filed for bankruptcy less than a year ago and is going through restructuring. Hundreds of good workers are losing their jobs to this and companies are moving to Mexico and other countries. If we don't take a stand and demand that our products are made in America, then we only have ourselves to blame. Anybody know of a good place to work? I'm looking for a new job right now, but everything else is moving out of Michigan too. I would have never dreamed I would be seeing what I am seeing right now, and I thought it won't ever happen to me, WRONG. Sorry about the vent, but we all need a wake up.

Back to the topic, here is another from the 17th.

----------------------------------------------------------------

By MATT APUZZO
Associated Press Writer

January 17, 2006, 4:52 PM EST

NEW HAVEN, Conn. -- U.S. Repeating Arms Co. Inc. said Tuesday it will close its Winchester firearm factory, threatening the future of a rifle that was once called "The Gun that Won the West."

"It's part of who we are as a nation just like it's part of who we are as a city," Mayor John DeStefano said.

The announcement touched off a lobbying effort by city officials and union leaders who hoped to find a buyer for the plant before it closes March 31. If no buyer comes forward, it could spell the end for nearly all commercially produced Winchesters, said Everett Corey, a representative of the International Association of Machinists District 26.

"Winchester would be pretty much defunct," he said. "They're not going to produce them, other than a couple custom-type models."

The company has been plagued by slumping firearm sales. More than 19,000 people worked there during World War II, but the plant employs fewer than 200 now. All will lose their jobs when the plant closes.

The Winchester model 1873 lever action rifle was popular among American frontiersmen at the end of the 19th century for its reliability. John Wayne made the Winchester rifle a signature of his movies and Chuck Connors posed menacingly with his Winchester on the poster for the television series "The Rifleman."

"Marlin made lever-action rifles but nobody ever had a Marlin in films or TV series. They were always Winchesters," said Ned Schwing, a firearms historian.

Perhaps the company's greatest unofficial spokesman was President Teddy Roosevelt, who used the 1895 model on his famous 1909 African safari, which historians credited with boosting the sale of Winchester sporting rifles.

Since the plant opened in 1866, tens of millions of Winchester rifles have been produced, the bulk of which came between the late 1800s and the end of World War II, said firearms historian R.L. Wilson, who has written books about Winchester. More than six million copies of the Winchester Model 94, the company's most popular rifle, have been produced.

"Several generations have worked at this place, a lot of fathers and brothers, sons, uncles and daughters," said Paul DeMennato, facility director at U.S. Repeating Arms.

U.S. Repeating Arms, which is owned by the Herstal Group, a Belgium company, has said for years that it was on the brink of closing the plant.

DeMennato said the company is negotiating the plant's sale. Missouri-based Olin Corp. owns the Winchester brand name. In the late 1970s, after a massive strike by its machinists, Olin sold the plant to U.S. Repeating Arms along with the right to use the Winchester name until next year.

Olin had no immediate word on its plans for the Winchester name. DeMennato said he hopes the name will be sold along with the plant. Nobody at Herstal's headquarters in Belgium could be reached Tuesday afternoon.

[Mac11700]

Looks like it's time to buy some collectables...

Mac

[myarmor]

Wow!    I didn't know that about Winchester.
I too got a great deal on a Model 70, though not quite as good as as your deal. I paid $225 for my new Model 70-270. Shoots awesome too. I wouldn't feel too bad, who in their right mind wouldn't buy it for that price?
-Aaron

[knight0334]

I try my best to purchase from the local guys.  The money I spend at their shop comes back around when they pay their cable tv bills.   .....but, if theres an outragous price difference, I go with the cheaper.  Wally World has collected cash from me a handful of times because of a big difference.   ...I'm loyal to a point, being broke does factor in.

[flyfisher]

Heck, my local gun guy can almost always beat the prices of even Wal-Mart.  I wonder sometimes how he stays in business by making so very little on firearms purchases.  I think that it's because he treats it as a pasttime, not for the sake of the profit.

[218Bee]

So Winchester has just been Walmarted :?

Rick

[bluebayou]

"Walmarted?"
So....overpriced lever action guns not being manufactured in the US is WalMart's fault how?  How many American made bolt action gunowners are out there?  My Remington was made in Ilion, NY, but who has a Browning or a Winchester M70.  What about the good old Weatherby Vanguard that everyone seems to tout here at GBO?  (Other than GB, himself).  The Vanguard is a TRUE Walmart gun as it wouldn't exist as a brand name today if it wasn't for WalMart buying all of them up in mass a few years ago.  I would hazard to say that Walmart saved Weatherby's bacon.  Anyway, the Vanguard is made in Japan, the Tikka is made in Finland, uh.........Savage or Remington anyone?  Everyone loves to point at WalMart.  My question is this:

Instead of pissing and moaning about lost manufacturing jobs why don't we use our God-given technological expertise and replace some thousands of  well-meaning blue collar jobs with some hundreds of white collar computer jockey jobs before the whole world is handed over to the Chinese.  I refuse to believe that the Winchester leverguns made in the US could not be manufactured cheaper.  You could buy an Italian or BrazilianWhew.... levergun for less.  It is ridiculous waste to close that plant.

[FirstFreedom]

1.  Walmart clearance items can be *really* good deals, such as your $150 Win 70 in .30-06.  That's even better than my $175 new Savage 110 7 remmag I found there on a clearance.  Any more, it's the only time I'll buy from them.  That or if they can get a gun that no one else can.

2.    Olin, a MO-based US company, has the rights to the Winchester name that they licensed to the Herstal Group (formerly FN Herstal) in Belgium, which in turn was sub-licensed to USRAC.   The USRAC plant which makes model 70s and model 94s in NH, CT, USA is shutting down Olin may or may not negotiate a new contract with the Herstal Group or another company.  But, even if they do, it is quite likely than any new Winchester 70s & 94s will be made in Belgium, Brazil, Argentina, China or whathaveyou.  So if you want a (a) new, (b) American-made model 70 or 94, get it now.  Otherwise, you can wait for a foreign-made Win or used one.

[Mac11700]

I wonder if Marlin is considering making a bid on them?

Mac

[mitchell]

i think marlin will pass, even though its going real cheap (FREE). winchester would give the company away right now but the recipient has to take the 70 million dollar dept they have too.


anybody up for a group buy??