Author Topic: Artillery Games (Read 2551 times)

Artilleryman · « **Reply #30 on:** January 16, 2006, 02:42:26 AM »

The one were you are looking down the barrel of a 24 pdr howitzer is called a mirror shot. They put up a mirror so that the high speed camera could look down the barrel as it fired. You break the mirror of course but you are able to see what is happening as the gun is fired. It was interesting to see the flame come out around the ball.

Double D · « **Reply #31 on:** January 16, 2006, 06:35:14 AM »

img]http://www.fototime.com/DC775A61DEB19CA/standard.jpg[/img]

Quote from: Artilleryman

The effects of a 105mm round. It set fire to the rear tire. The vehicle had be drained of all of its fluids before being placed on the range.

I was kind of shocked by this whole sequence of old vs new, Parrot rifle Vs LG1. I expected the Modern to walk rings around the old.

The station wagon was about 1300 yards away. Direct fire range. It took 4 rounds for the LG1 to hit the car. Well it didn't hit the car. With its explosive shells it hit next to the car and destroyed it. Good enough for thin skinned vehicles and exposed troops. But if armored vehicles get in direct fire range the LG1 crew is in trouble. The lack of pinpoint accuracy was clear by the misses on the 4' x 8' target at 1000 yards by the LG1. The Parrot got 4 out of 5 on target.

If the LG1 can't hit a 4' x 8' target at 1000 yard what heck can it hit at 21,000 yards its max range. It appears to me from looking at the video that the LG 1 had a 5 shot group of about 30 feet, with a 50 meter bursting radius. The computes to about 630 feet at 21,000 yards

Alright you former Cannon cockers explain it to me! Why is this good?

Artilleryman · « **Reply #32 on:** January 16, 2006, 11:12:13 AM »

A couple of corrections the targets were 8 x 16 foot, and we got 5 for 5 hits. I have a photo showing this. The 4x8 foot targets were used at Grayling, and 2 feet of the target was buried in the berm, making it actually a 4x6 foot target. We probably could have had a tighter group if we had been using match ammunition instead of standard ammo. Also the results at Grayling are what they are after having fired there a couple of years in a row. At the Canadian shoot we were firing at a longer distance and the target is at a much higher elevation.

One of the interesting things to me was that they used a string of powder bags and cut the number of bags that they needed for the range being fired at. They dropped these into the shell casing and placed the projectile on top before inserting it into the gun. So they were lobing in their projectiles at probably the same or similar velocity that we had with the Parrott rounds. They dropped one or two rounds just in front of the target backer. The other three rounds just missed the top of the backer. This may be due to the fact that there was a shrapnel hole in the target from a previous shot that looked like a hit, and they probably used the same sight picture. I have to say though that I was surprised by the results.

Someone with more experience with a 105 mm howizter will have to provide us with more information.

GGaskill · « **Reply #33 on:** January 16, 2006, 02:25:27 PM »

I can't speak to this particular situation but a friend once worked on automatic cannon ammo and he said that the acceptance tests were arranged such that ammo that grouped worse would get hits when it was incorrectly aimed while the better grouping ammo would miss entirely. They wouldn't refire with corrected aim. Glad I don't rely on that kind of acceptance.

Red_Leg · « **Reply #34 on:** January 17, 2006, 05:55:05 AM »

:grin: Wow does the memory of that shoot at the (?) cannot remember the ranges at Sill anymore---it's been---over fifty years. I attended an ABOC Basic and Advanced Artillery Officer's course at the school, before shipping out to Korea---assigned to the First Cav., (I did 63 days as a BC before the "armistice"(sell-out) occurred). The school troops tried three times to coordinate the 105 Howitzer and a 155 Gun---to prove Newton's hypothesis---close but no cigars that day. I would suppose that with more sophisticated fire control these days---the day's of the "deflection fan" & slide rule---are long gone. I am a total whack about mortars (the o-o-o-ld timers)---having watched a couple of NSSA shoots and visiting a mortar battery shoot in upstate NY. There is no place here on Long Island where you shoot anything that size---my gun club would look askew at my shooting a mortar at their 200 yards target line---(no sense of humor). :?

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #35 on:** January 17, 2006, 07:00:53 AM »

Quote from: Double D

....
If the LG1 can't hit a 4' x 8' target at 1000 yard what heck can it hit at 21,000 yards its max range. It appears to me from looking at the video that the LG 1 had a 5 shot group of about 30 feet, with a 50 meter bursting radius. The computes to about 630 feet at 21,000 yards

Alright you former Cannon cockers explain it to me! Why is this good?

ASSUMING that the LG1 (having not seen one) is a howitzer and that it's similar to our 105mm or 155mm (or other) it may not designed to shoot at point targets, as tanks; where our 105mm and 120mm tank mounted guns are. If that's the case, the tank mounted cannons are much more accurate, have AP rounds and can be fired very quickly.

A howitzer (105mm has 35meter bursting radius (half of what's in the radius dies) and 155 has 50 meter bursting radius). You don't shoot just one. It's either 4 or 6 that are arrayed in a 'lazy W' pattern of about the same size as the target area - 10's of meters deep and 100 meters or so wide. So when all 4 or 6 weapons are fired, the whole area is blanketed with frag. They are fired after the 'adjust fire' stage of the 'call for fire' procedure. THat is, the oldest two cannon fire in the 'adjust fire' stage, successively cutting the 400 meter, 200 meter and the 100 meter bracket by adjusting add/drop and left/right. When the 100 meter bracket is entered, fire for effect - and the whole area gets their weekend ruined.

Quick, effective.

With practice, a good team can get right much on target quickly for busting bunkers - (note: with practice).

Double D · « **Reply #36 on:** January 24, 2006, 03:26:12 AM »

Norm,

Did the film company get enough footage for a part two, and will there be? We want more!!!

Artilleryman · « **Reply #37 on:** January 24, 2006, 06:37:48 AM »

In my opinion they have more than enough for second program, but I doubt that they will do it. What might happen is that some of the footage might end up in another program to illustrate something. This would probably be in 5 second segments. I just don't know for sure. If I hear of anything I will post it right away. There is a lot of stuff I would like to see, especially the slow motion material.

Kansas Boomer · « **Reply #38 on:** January 25, 2006, 03:33:58 AM »

Every time I view my copy of "Artillary Games", I notice something fly off the 1885 3.2" Field Cannon when ever it is fired. It is the cannnon fired by the Spanish American War reenactors. What flies off, and is it supposed to? Thanks, Kansas Boomer

Artilleryman · « **Reply #39 on:** January 25, 2006, 06:29:24 AM »

I believe that the piece that flies off is a vent shield that keeps primers from hitting anyone behind the piece. I don't know if that was used orginally or if it is a modern adaption. If it was used orginally I wouldn't think that it would fly off. My interest is in Civil War period artillery and I am not to familiar with this piece. You have me curious enough now to do some research.

Another thing to notice about this gun is that it has recoil brakes on the wheels that limit how far back it recoils. On firing as the gun recoils the brakes are applied automatically.

Kansas Boomer · « **Reply #40 on:** January 25, 2006, 08:31:45 AM »

Good information about the 1885 3.2" Field Cannon and at least one other cannon that fired in "Artillary Games" is at http://www.fieldsofthunder.com/artillery.htm Kansas Boomer

GGaskill · « **Reply #41 on:** January 25, 2006, 08:49:42 AM »

This is an interesting looking piece:

http://www.fieldsofthunder.com/images/3_6-inch_Field_Mortar.jpg">

1890 3.6" Field Mortar from FieldsOfThunder.com

Artilleryman · « **Reply #42 on:** January 25, 2006, 09:31:42 AM »

Quote

Good information about the 1885 3.2" Field Cannon and at least one other cannon that fired in "Artillary Games" is at http://www.fieldsofthunder.com/artillery.htm Kansas Boomer

Thanks for posting the website. It shows the braking system I was talking about. To bad it doesn't show or discuss the firing system.