Author Topic: Carry safety (Read 1182 times)

Nuttinbutchunks · « **on:** January 08, 2006, 02:13:55 PM »

I have a Springfield Ultra compact .45 I carry in my waiste band concealed. I carry it cocked and locked. Is this a bad idea?

rockbilly · « **Reply #1 on:** January 08, 2006, 02:47:21 PM »

:shock: I know lots of folks carry "cocked and locked," but I was always taught to never cock and lock unless I was in an actual situation where it may be necessary to pull the gun. Practice, practice, pratice and eventually you will be able to draw, cock and get a round off almost as fast as you could it were cocked and locked. And it would be much safer for the average concealed carry individual. :roll:

williamlayton · « **Reply #2 on:** January 09, 2006, 12:11:08 AM »

C & L is cool, however I tend to agree with RB.
Blessings

AzDrifter · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2006, 04:22:52 AM »

Lots of folks carrry cocked and locked without any problems, and trying to convince them otherwise is just beating your head against the wall.

Still, I knew a fella years ago that shot himself carrying that way...and that was good enough for me. If I feel threatened, sure I'd carry it cocked and locked...and likely in my hand. Otherwise, I feel safer carrying with a round in the chamber at half cock.

Of course, I was taught to never trust mechanical safeties.

Daryl

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 09, 2006, 07:27:56 AM »

Is it in a holster or just in your waste band? My carry holster allows me to have a strap under the hammer for cocked & locked carry. Once it is drawn from the holster, all I have to do is depress the lock.

Mikey · « **Reply #5 on:** January 09, 2006, 08:19:09 AM »

The 1911/1911A1 is designed to be carried cocked and locked, period. You then have to manipulate two individual safety mechanisms to bring the pistol to fire - the slide safety and the grip safety but this can be done through training and practice in about 1.5 seconds. If you do not grip the pistol properly the grip safety will not disengage and you are history. The difference in time between cocked and locked and unchambered is about an additional 1.5 seconds, even for a trained pistol shooter - just enough time to take two fatal strikes from a pointed or edged weapon held by an assailant who was previously about 10' from you.

You have the right idea. HTH. Mikey.

jimster · « **Reply #6 on:** January 09, 2006, 10:19:25 AM »

I have my own rules, like eveyone else, and I feel comfortable carrying cocked and locked...if I'm in a questionable area, I will carry this way.
If I'm not in a high danger area I do not have a round in the chamber.
But take note...I am always totally aware of what condition my gun is in, and am Always thinking. I can draw, and sweep the slide and chamber a round in about 1.5 seconds without fumbling because I practice it.
My own personal rule is, if the hammer is back and safety on, there IS a round in the chamber, if the hammer is down, there is not a round in the chamber. I never break my own little rules. I do believe it's safe to carry one cocked and locked, but there are times when I don't, but carrying a 1911 two different ways can be dangerous in itself if your not always thinking. So I guess, practice, and be aware of whatever you do all the time, and you'll be safe. And if your not one that can remember what condition your gun is in all the time, just pick one way and stick with that I guess.

My two cents....

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2006, 10:46:44 AM »

It does not seem too far fetched to me that a guy'd need to keep VERY quiet and yet be ready to fire in a split second. How that works without a round in the chamber I don't know. Maybe a switch to a DA revolver is in order.

williamlayton · « **Reply #8 on:** January 09, 2006, 01:47:21 PM »

I took it from the post that he was carrying stuffed not holstered, therefore my repy.
I do nt care for C&L, even holstered though I do care about a round being chambered.
Rarely do I carry holstered anymore and not much even in the old days. I do not carry C&L but I will temp fate on half cock or even no cock. Just me.
Blessings

Nuttinbutchunks · « **Reply #9 on:** January 09, 2006, 05:15:01 PM »

I do have a IWB holster, so it's not going anywhere. The holster doesn't have a strap, or I don't use the strap it came with. So it's open. I have carried it C&L ever since I've owned it but now I am having second thoughts after the Assistant manager where I work suggested I do it different. I don't want to get shot, but it is a 1911, and designed for that method of carry. But every time I've seen one carried that way it was in a belt holster. So if it went off it would shoot down the leg missing the person and hitting the floor.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2006, 06:12:46 PM »

Quote from: Nuttinbutchunks

I do have a IWB holster, so it's not going anywhere. The holster doesn't have a strap, or I don't use the strap it came with. So it's open. I have carried it C&L ever since I've owned it but now I am having second thoughts after the Assistant manager where I work suggested I do it different. I don't want to get shot, but it is a 1911, and designed for that method of carry. But every time I've seen one carried that way it was in a belt holster. So if it went off it would shoot down the leg missing the person and hitting the floor.

I have a High noon holster and it works great for my Colt Defender or my Springfield 1911.

Mikey · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2006, 02:15:20 AM »

Whether the 1911 is holstered or not, a cocked and locked pistol is not going to go off by itself. Even if for some incredible reason a 1911 slips from a full cock, it will slip to the half cock and not go off by itself. Mikey.

Nuttinbutchunks · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2006, 03:37:18 PM »

I've been carrying it that way for months now, and haven't had a problem YET! I guess I'll continue to carry it that way.

Savage · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2006, 03:46:46 PM »

A 1911 carried in any condition other than cocked and locked, is like carrying a poor club. The solution is simple, if C&L bothers you, carry another action type. Anyone who carries any pistol unchambered and believes when needed they'll always have time to chamber a round is living in a dream world. Good luck with that!
Savage

Tn Jim · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2006, 09:19:30 AM »

I have a Springfield Ultra Compact mil-spec in a Milt Sparks IWB holster. I have always carried it C&L. John Browning designed it to be carried that way. I can't think of a way for a 1911 to bypass two seperate safties and fire if it were to be dropped.

volshooter · « **Reply #15 on:** January 14, 2006, 03:09:33 PM »

Savage had it right. if you don't feel right with C&L then switch pistols. I carry a Para 12/45 C&L 100% of the time. It is safe as long as someone does not grab it and overcome the 3 safeties in place. Dang, just think about it on a revolver you only have to pull the trigger. I feel safer carrying C&L on 1911 than revlovers.
Rick

Nuttinbutchunks · « **Reply #16 on:** January 14, 2006, 05:36:39 PM »

I've had it apart, and so I know it won't fire unless the grip safety is pushed in. That John Browning was a genious. I am carrying it C&L. And I've come to the conclusion that it is safe to do so in this holster.

Savage · « **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2006, 02:30:28 AM »

It's just the preception thing, people see a gun with a cocked external hammer and freak. These same people think nothing of carrying a hunting rifle with a 1.5# trigger cocked and locked., or the old 870 in the corner chambered, safety on. Even worse, a chambered Glock with a 3# trigger and NO manual safety!! Once they learn how the firearm works, the external hammer on the 1911 is no big deal.
Savage

jhm · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2006, 05:27:12 AM »

26+ yrs ago a police officer friend of mine barrowed my Jackass shoulder holster for a few days and left it at the station one nite the next day he was getting ready to go to the station, and he stuffed the colt of his into his waistband c&L, the weapon went off 6in. streak thru butt hole in foyer hole in finished basement ceiling, it can happen fellows A D report filled out to CYOA kinda like the bandage did. :-D

JIM

Savage · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2006, 02:34:00 PM »

Jim,
Sounds like an ND to me. No gun is idiot proof.
Savage

jhm · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2006, 04:21:40 PM »

I agree but it did happen and he caught alot of grief over it from everyone on the force, he transfered to Ft. worth PD a few yrs later and we lost touch, I did get my holster back though, and if memory searves me right he did quit carrying his 45 as a back-up piece :-D

JIM

Savage · « **Reply #21 on:** January 18, 2006, 01:42:15 AM »

Yeah Jim, I knew you were aware that the gun had to be off safety with the grip safety deactivated, and then the trigger pulled to fire. Just wanted to make sure that some of the less experienced on the board didn't get the impression that it was a design flaw instead of gross operator error.
Cheers,
Savage

jhm · « **Reply #22 on:** January 18, 2006, 04:04:52 AM »

Yes for awhile we refered to it as a HIP safety instead of a GRIP safety, it got old with him quickly, he didnt see as much humor it it that we did. :-D

JIM

wJAKE19 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 18, 2006, 05:12:31 AM »

Quote from: Savage

A 1911 carried in any condition other than cocked and locked, is like carrying a poor club. The solution is simple, if C&L bothers you, carry another action type. Anyone who carries any pistol unchambered and believes when needed they'll always have time to chamber a round is living in a dream world. Good luck with that!
Savage

I totaly agree..

rockbilly · « **Reply #24 on:** January 18, 2006, 12:36:39 PM »

:roll: In both military and LEO training, I was taught not carry C&L unless I was in a high threat area, and not then if there was any possibility of a hand-to-hand situation. If you are C&L and the bad guy gets his hand on the gun then it is SHTF time. If he has to cock the gun you have a few seconds more to take action.

If you practice, practice, practice you will develope the comfidance and speed to draw, cock and fire the gun ALMOST as fast as drawing and shooting, and you don't have to live with the fear of shooting any "personal hardware" off. JMHO :wink: :wink: :wink:

Savage · « **Reply #25 on:** January 19, 2006, 12:20:01 PM »

rockkilly wrote:
If you practice, practice, practice you will develope the comfidance and speed to draw, cock and fire the gun ALMOST as fast as drawing and shooting, and you don't have to live with the fear of shooting any "personal hardware" off. JMHO

The military teaches a lot of things for garrison safety with weapons. Like carrying with an empty chamber, hammer down. I have carried many a mile with a sidearm in that condition. Believe me, in a hot area, you'd have a hard time finding a weapon of any type unchambered. There's good reason for that:
The weapon must be ready for immediate action!
The requirement for a personal defense weapon is no different. Train all you want to carry an unchambered weapon. Don't forget to pratice chambering with one hand while fending off a knife weilding attacker, or in a situtation where you're surprised by an assailant. I'd prefer not to stack the odds in favor of the bad guys. Any weapon I carry will be fully loaded, including the chamber. Good luck!
Savage

edit: Just noticed the LEO thing--------What agency is teaching unchambered carry-----?? Never heard of such a thing!

rockbilly · « **Reply #26 on:** January 19, 2006, 01:21:45 PM »

I never said, don't carry with one in the chamber. If that were the case, you may as well leave it home. :roll:

AZ223 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 24, 2006, 05:55:34 AM »

I carry the same pistol as Savage, a P12-45, and I carry it the same way. Yes it made me a bit nervous when first doing so, but after becoming more and more familiar with it, I realized an accidental discharge will happen only if I do something stupid, like try to holser it with my finger on the trigger and the thumb safety off, AND gripping the backstrap to depress THAT safety.

I also notice a lot of people say, "You can draw and cock ALMOST as fast...", and that's the key word: ALMOST. Sorry, but that's not good enough in my book. We are carrying to defend agains lethal force, and that can mean ANYTHING. Criminals want, and will take, absolutely every opportunity they can to get an advatage. If you're not comfortable with cocked & locked, find a different weapon. You need every advantage you can possibly get, and that includes the fact thay you may only have one hand free.

Lastly, it's my understanding that the 1911 was originally designed with only ONE external safety; the military pushed to add the other. I've deliberately cocked and UNLOCKED my Para (unloaded, of course) and dropped it from as high as five feet on the floor several times, and it did not discharge. A properly maintained & unmodified 1911 should not be a problem carrying cocked & locked.

My $.02....

Dana C · « **Reply #28 on:** February 01, 2006, 10:33:06 AM »

I sold my 1911 and bought a couple of ParaOrd LDA's because I just couldn't get comfortable with C&L carry. The Para Ord Light Double Action allows me to carry with a round in the chamber, saftey on with what I feel is a greater degree of saftey...at least for me. I can draw and fire as fast as any single action shooter and with the smooth DA of the LDA, I am probley a better shooter than I ever was with a SA 1911.

Savage · « **Reply #29 on:** February 01, 2006, 12:17:30 PM »

The LDAs are a solution looking for a problem. Having put more than a few rounds down range thru the LDAs, I have to say, the trigger is quite nice. Simular to the stock SA pull in weight, not as crisp, and longer trigger travel. Some agencies in my area allow the LDA, and do not allow the SA. The reason given: "It looks better to the public to see an uncocked pistol in an officer's holster". If I couldn't carry a SA duty pistol, I could live with the LDA, or even a DA/SA. Thank goodness I don't have to make that choice!
Savage