Author Topic: to muzzle loader or not (Read 639 times)

acearch72 · « **on:** February 04, 2006, 04:26:42 PM »

I have not taken advantage of the extended primitive weapons season in Mississippi, but I plan to change that next year. I have been planning on purchasing an Encore muzzleloader. However, Mississippi now allows single shot replica rounds of greater than .38 cal to be acceptable as a primitive weapon, so a 45/70 Gov would be OK.

Since I never had a ML before, what would be the best choice here. Seems the 45/70 with smokeless powder and single cased round would be simpler to use and clean. Comments.............

Also how about performance between the 209 x 50 ML and the 45/70 Gov? Any comments here would be welcome as well............

Grumulkin · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2006, 04:50:15 PM »

I think the Encore Muzzel Loader barrel is a nice option and shoots well but I much prefer a cartridge gun. I finally shot my Encore muzzel loader barrel this year only because Ohio has a muzzel loader deer season I wanted to participate in. I used Thompson/Center plastic sabots with .44 caliber 240 grain jacketed hollowpoint handgun bullets for quite acceptable hunting accuracy. I used Shocky's Gold powder sticks which seem to live up to their claims of not requiring frequent barrel cleaning (I shot it about 20 times with no cleaning and the barrel was easy to clean when I was done as well).

If you have the choice though, I would go with the .45/70.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2006, 01:56:36 AM »

acearch72, Delaware also came up with a single shot replica gun law to allow hunter to use Shiloh Sharps or Sharps replica gun to be used during the Shotgun season. The catch is you have to use Black powder rounds with paper patch bullets. I don't know what restrictions Mississippi has but we in Delaware still can only use a Muzzleloader for M/L season.

I think I would get the Encore M/L barrel, I love mine.

acearch72 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2006, 06:28:08 AM »

redhawk1,

here is the mississippi regulation on primitive weapons:

"PRIMITIVE WEAPONS
"Primitive firearms" for the purpose of hunting deer, are defined as single or double barreled muzzle-loading rifles of at least .38 caliber; single shot, breech loading, cartridge rifles (.38 caliber or larger) of a kind and type manufactured prior to 1900, and replicas, reproductions or reintroductions of those type rifles; and single or double-barreled muzzle-loading, shotguns with single ball or slug. All muzzle-loading Primitive Firearms must use black powder or a black powder substitute with either percussion caps or #209 shotgun primers or flintlock ignition. Breech loading single shot rifles must have exposed hammers and use metallic cartridges. Cartridges may be loaded either with black powder or modern smokeless powder. Scopes of any magnification are allowed on primitive weapons. Sidearms are not allowed during primitive weapon season."

As you can see, a 45/70 cartrige with a smokless powder cartrige would be acceptable. As I read it, the statement about caliber of a kind and type manufactured before 1900 eliminates the use of more modern calibers such as 444 and 450 Marlin calibers, but certainly would include the 45/70 Gov.

I was sort of intrigued with going with the ML, but a smokeless powder cartrige just seems much easier and cleaner to me. Also, this Encore would be the standard model without the special fore end, so it would be easier [cheaper] to go with different caliber options.

Comments...........

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2006, 07:32:56 AM »

acearch72, in that case I would go with the 45-70. The reason is for how quick I could reload for a follow up shot with the 45-70 over the M/L. Although I do love my Encore M/L, I have taken deer out to 160 yards and never required a second shot. .

acearch72 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2006, 07:49:54 AM »

Does anyone know what the ballistic comparison is between the 209 x 50 ML and the 45/70 Gov?

MS10point · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2006, 11:12:49 AM »

Being from MS I have a lot of friends that have gone to the 45-70 because it is a lot easier to use than the ML. I bought a .50 cal. Encore this year mainly because I liked the Encore and intend on buying a rifle barrel for it. I was also concerned that the legislature is getting a lot of pressure from T/C, the governor and sportsmen, who want a more traditional "primitive weapon" season. There was speculation that the law may be changed yet again. ?? We have too many deer and they want to get more people in the woods. I don't really think an Encore with a 3x9 Burris is very primive either but whatever. The other weird thing about the law is that somehow the NEF Handi Rifle is considered legal, but not the Encore. I guess it's a technical issue. Personally I think that is all a preference thing. Based on what I know, the longer the barrel the better on the 45-70. My friend has a Uberti with a 32" barrel that is really a shooter. I have also heard of people using the .500 SW round but I don't know which rifle it comes in.
As far as ballistics, the ML may have a small advantage ,but the 45-70 wins the ease of use battle hands down. You can veiw ballistics on the new Hornady 45-70 bullets as well as their ML bullets @ www.hornady.com. I hope this helps.
PS. Where do you hunt in MS?
See Ya

MS10point · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2006, 11:15:24 AM »

Being from MS I have a lot of friends that have gone to the 45-70 because it is a lot easier to use than the ML. I bought a .50 cal. Encore this year mainly because I liked the Encore and intend on buying a rifle barrel for it. I was also concerned that the legislature is getting a lot of pressure from T/C, the governor and sportsmen, who want a more traditional "primitive weapon" season. There was speculation that the law may be changed yet again. ?? We have too many deer and they want to get more people in the woods. I don't really think an Encore with a 3x9 Burris is very primive either but whatever. The other weird thing about the law is that somehow the NEF Handi Rifle is considered legal, but not the Encore. I guess it's a technical issue. Personally I think that is all a preference thing. Based on what I know, the longer the barrel the better on the 45-70. My friend has a Uberti with a 32" barrel that is really a shooter. I have also heard of people using the .500 SW round but I don't know which rifle it comes in.
As far as ballistics, the ML may have a small advantage ,but the 45-70 wins the ease of use battle hands down. You can veiw ballistics on the new Hornady 45-70 bullets as well as their ML bullets @ www.hornady.com. I hope this helps.
PS. Where do you hunt in MS?
See Ya

MS10point · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2006, 11:20:56 AM »

Being from MS I have a lot of friends that have gone to the 45-70 because it is a lot easier to use than the ML. I bought a .50 cal. Encore this year mainly because I liked the Encore and intend on buying a rifle barrel for it. I was also concerned that the legislature is getting a lot of pressure from T/C, the governor and sportsmen, who want a more traditional "primitive weapon" season. There was speculation that the law may be changed yet again. ?? We have too many deer and they want to get more people in the woods. I don't really think an Encore with a 3x9 Burris is very primive either but whatever. The other weird thing about the law is that somehow the NEF Handi Rifle is considered legal, but not the Encore. I guess it's a technical issue. Personally I think that is all a preference thing. Based on what I know, the longer the barrel the better on the 45-70. My friend has a Uberti with a 32" barrel that is really a shooter. I have also heard of people using the .500 SW round but I don't know which rifle it comes in.
As far as ballistics, the ML may have a small advantage ,but the 45-70 wins the ease of use battle hands down. You can veiw ballistics on the new Hornady 45-70 bullets as well as their ML bullets @ www.hornady.com. I hope this helps.
PS. Where do you hunt in MS?
See Ya

acearch72 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 05, 2006, 11:35:54 AM »

acearch72 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 05, 2006, 11:40:13 AM »

MS10pt,

Are you saying that the Encore in 45/70 is not considered a legal primitive weapon in Ms. based on the new rule.

The rule is confusing, but I don't necessarily read it that way.......

MS10point · « **Reply #11 on:** February 05, 2006, 12:38:58 PM »

Quote from: acearch72

MS10pt,

Are you saying that the Encore in 45/70 is not considered a legal primitive weapon in Ms. based on the new rule.

The rule is confusing, but I don't necessarily read it that way.......

Sorry about the redundunt posts. It didn't appear they were going through. The way that I understand the law is that the only "modern style" rifle allowed is the NEF Handi rifle. NEF also makes a "Buffalo Rifle" which is a replica that is also legal. (by the way these are by far your cheapest options) Early on there was confusion on the handi rifle but I know many people that are using it and have been told by the gun shops that they are indeed legal. It appears that TC felt like they got a raw deal because a: they won't selll as many MLs and b: the encore isn't legal but one of their competitors is. The safe thing to do would be to contact the MS DWF&P and get a clarification before making any purchase.

See Ya

conrad101st · « **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2006, 06:19:30 AM »

Based on the quoted definition of a Muzzleloader, I think they mean rifles like the sharps or henry rifles. I think the date is in reference to the type arm and not the year of the cartridge. :?