Author Topic: 22mag advice (Read 1775 times)

shooter · « **on:** January 25, 2006, 10:13:35 PM »

Can anyone give me advice regarding the purchase of a new inexpensive rifle in 22mag ?I'd like to keep the price under $200 without a scope.
Doesn't matter the action type either although i'd prefer a semi-auto.
My intent is for plinking,small game head shots and 100yrd coyote hunting.
Shooter

Keith L · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:53:09 PM »

I bought a Winchester 9422M a year ago for $175 used in great shape. I think you may be able to get a new bolt gun in Marlin or Savage for what you want to pay. I don't think you can get an autoloader for that but I haven't shopped for one lately so I don't really know.

At 100 yards you don't have enough steam left to count on putting yotes down in a humane manner. That is centerfire country.

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2006, 04:02:15 AM »

I have a new in box Marlin 982 in .22 Magnum, SS metal and the black plastic stock. Sights are fire sights. I've decided to let it go and can let you have it for $200 plus $20 to ship. That's not exactly under $200 but that's all I'm willing to lose on the thing in letting it go. I had an 882 prior to it and let it go in a moment of stupidity and bought this one as a replacement. Trigger is better but since I've not shot it I can't speak to accuracy of this one. The 882 was submoa with Win HPs.

shooter · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2006, 07:24:18 PM »

Graybeard,
thanks for the offer but i'll have to decline because when i drove by Gander Mountain this evening i felt somethin akin to a strong magnetic pull drawing me closer to the store.Once inside,i was dragged over to the rimfire section.My hands somehow got attached to a used but in excellant shape Savage 93R17-FV bolt action chambered in .17 HMR.It already had the same cheap Simmons 3x9x40 on it that i was going to take off my Stevens 200 and use.They were asking $178,i got them down to $160 which already includes the 1 yr warranty.The same gun there new goes for $189 with scope rail but minus the scope.So i figure if i did buy the new one and didnt use my scope i'd have to invest about $20 for a set of weaver mounts and $50 for a cheap scope.Well,she's on lay-a-way now but wont remain there for long.I've got a coyote or 2 to test this on prior to our season end 3/26/06.Thanks for the offer anyway.
Shooter

Keith L · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2006, 01:08:58 AM »

I's apparent you aren't interested in this opinion but I will give it anyway. 17HMR is a great round for little things. It is highly accurate. It has little drop, so comensation for longer shots is much less. It works well for small varmints, but is just not enough gun for long shots on cyotes. While you will kill some of them others will be lost. They will suffer and die elsewhere and give hunters a bad name.

I have 3 17HMRs and 3 22 Mags, so I like them for the proper use. I have to stress that for an animal the size of our northern yotes a centerfire is in order. I use either a .204 ruger or a .222. We should put game down, not have it dragging isself into someone's back yard and have it die snapping at someones children.

mangulator · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2006, 07:38:53 AM »

shooter, congratulations on your new gun. I have the same model and the gun is accurrate. Taken many a fox and jack rabbits with it. My 17hmr loves the Hornady 20 grain XTP.

Ocsamschainsaw · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2006, 07:42:18 AM »

My marlin 917v is possibly the most accurate firearm I've ever purchased.
It's wearing an el chapo Barska 24x scope right now, that after 500 rounds has yet to fail in any way shape or form, and is vastly better than the older sweet 17 scope I had on it..
You will definitely enjoy your .17. And when all of your friends shoot it, they too, will want one...

shooter · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2006, 05:03:20 PM »

Keith,
Im not going to be dragged into that debate.I've done alot or research/reading on various website regarding the effectivness of the .17 hmr on coyote etc..It seems that this is one of those topics which splits folks down the middle.I've talked to a few local guys who do use this caliber on coyote and are quite happy with it.Its all about shot placement.I'm sure there have been many a coyote wounded with .222 or 22 magnum because of poor shot placement.As far as i know (could be wrong) i've never heard of a wounded coyote stalking anybody.Coyotes attacks are common in areas where human encroachment and lack of hunting has allowed their numbers to increase and they overtax the local vermin populations and then start looking at peoples pets as dinner because of their habituation to people in these suberbs some of whom make matters worse by feeding them.Ok,nuff said.But thank you for your opinion.
Shooter

shooter · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2006, 05:08:03 PM »

Keith,
your opening statement "it appears that your not interested in my opinion" seems leading and inaccurate.Please tell what i said in my two posts here prior to your post that would even suggest i didnt value your opinion.Your statement just seems a little inflammatory to me,i hope im misreading it since i dont know you and vice versa.
Shooter

Keith L · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2006, 12:40:08 AM »

Just stating the facts. You asked for advice. I gave it twice. You proceeded without it. Not interested. And this is my last post on this subject. No arguement from me. Do what you want to.

shooter · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2006, 06:33:58 PM »

Keith,
i apologize for not responding to your initial response.Its just force of habit.I dont usually respond to everyone individually i usually post a thank you to everyone.I felt i needed to respond to Graybeard because of his gracious offer on the 22 magnum.For all of you out their that offered their greatly welcomed opinions,i take this moment to say "Thank You"
Shooter

jh45gun · « **Reply #11 on:** February 03, 2006, 10:36:39 AM »

Your welcome shooter but I have to agree with Keith. ( Must be a WI thing LOL

) The 17 is good for some things but larger critters is not one of them. I have read a lot on them too and most responsible shooters feel it is for small critters only and you will see that also in about most any magizine article you may read about them. For that reason I will stick with my 22 mag for shots 75 yards and under and over that use a centerfire. Where I hunt and shoot most shots are way under a 100 yards anyway. Bullet placement is part of it but so is bullet design and that small frangible bullet just does not get the penitration that may be needed on a larger animal. Some cartridges seem to do more than you would think the 22 mag for its size is one of them. The 17HMR is not even though it has excellent accuracy at longer ranges better than its rimfire cousins. Still I would take the heavier 22 mag bullet over the 17 and limit the range so it can do what it was designed for. I know a lot of guys figure it is a coyote gun because they own it and figure it can be used as such. As been stated before hell even a 22LR has killed a Grizzly or a elephant but that does not mean it is the right gun for the job. Jim

shooter · « **Reply #12 on:** February 05, 2006, 08:56:31 PM »

Guys,
went to my buddies quarry/junk yard (where the coyotes are) and just for the hell of it i took a shot at an open car door with a 17gr 17hmr.The bullet punched thru the car door ,passed thru the armrest on the inside and ended up downrange somewhere.That was from 45 yrds.From 30 feet i shot at an abandoned van that didnt have any sort of lining/panelling etc.The bullet went completely thru both sides of the van and exited.Exit hole was about the size of my pinkie finger.It didnt seem to fragment on the 2nd steel wall like i thought it would.Again,bullet ended up downrange somewhere,i didnt see any lead nor parts of red plastic tip anywhere.I think if this bullet will do that,it should penetrate a 45 lb coyotes shoulder and probably go completely thru its skull.What do ya think ?
Shooter

Keith L · « **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2006, 01:17:04 AM »

Quote

My intent is for plinking,small game head shots and 100yrd coyote hunting.
Shooter

There is lots of ground between 45 yards and 100. Try that shot at 100 and see what you get. A 17HMR can also pierce a flak jacket at close range, but at 17 grains it looses lots of energy rapidly.

I stand by my earlier posts. No rimfire made today is adequate to humanely kill northern yotes at the range you stated in your original post and quoted above. If you insist on using that gun keep the ranges under 50 yards and carefully choose your shot placement. At 100 yards 17HMR has a hard time quickly killing wood chucks, and they are much smaller than a yote.

mangulator · « **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2006, 05:46:28 AM »

shooter, have you tried the 20 grain XTP. I know I have had good luck with them and would be able to pick any spot and put the bullet on spot. I know the small game I have shot never wiggles after the shot....

shooter · « **Reply #15 on:** February 07, 2006, 04:54:37 PM »

Ok,keith,1st chance i get i'll retry my experiment at 100 yrds.
Mangulator-i just started looking for the 20 gr here locally and haven't found it stocked.I may have to order them.
Shooter

Keith L · « **Reply #16 on:** February 08, 2006, 01:51:23 AM »

Look up 17HMR data on the ammo makers web pages. 17HMR according to Hornady only has 136 foot pounds of energy at 100 yards as compared to over 900 for .204 ruger and nearly 900 for a 223.

I truly enjoy all three of my 17HMRs and shoot them regularly. They are a lot of fun. I don't think they are enough for larger animals.

shooter · « **Reply #17 on:** February 08, 2006, 06:13:54 PM »

Keith,
you're right on about the power vs the .204 and .223.I was considering the 223 also but i thought with the 20 grain 17hmr i could also hunt rabbit,racoon,squirrel etc without too much overkill and yes,stretch its intended purpose to possibly include fox as well as coyote and not cause too much pelt damage.
Shooter

Keith L · « **Reply #18 on:** February 08, 2006, 08:05:27 PM »

Good luck with the 20 grain bullets. None of my guns shoot them nearly as well. At 100 yards groups open up to at least 2" with the 20 grain bullets, and they don't feed as well through my bolt gun. And you don't pick up that much energy.

There really is no all purpose gun. That is why I have so darned many I guess. But then again I like having them.

handirifle · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2006, 12:38:02 PM »

shooter
I was looking for the same thing and got talked into the 17. Since then I've read posts that loved it on coyotes under 100yds and posts that just about called you a criminal if you even tried it.

Haven't had the chance yet, and honestly I bought mine wanting a bobcat round for close in calling and got the same reaction AFTER I bought it of course.

Our cats out here (SoCal) in the local mountains seem to run about 25-30lbs so that should not be a problem. Coyotes do get pretty large in some areas so it is easy to see where some come off so hot against the 17 in those areas. Out here a 35lb coyote is a big one. I've seen a couple that could be over 40 in the 30+ years I've been here.

My Savage 93R17 groups the 20gr just about as good as anything else. About 3/4" at 100. Mine likes the CCI gamepoint and I haven't tried any other 20gr loads yet.

I'm sure under 100yds the 20gr will completely pass through a coyote, even if it went through a shoulder, but how well it would put him on the ground I'm not sure. If the chance comes, I'll go neck shot, knowing that little pill will break his neck. I have shot it through 4" hardwood posts at 80yds and it makes a 17 cal entrance and about a 30 cal exit.

All that said, I'm looking into a 22 mag also, just in case. For places that I call where shots could go over 100, I break out the 223.

Just an FYI, the XTP is a hollow point and the Gamepoint is lead filled.

handirifle · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2006, 12:40:51 PM »

sorry was having issues posting.

shooter · « **Reply #21 on:** February 14, 2006, 04:42:18 PM »

handirifle
I havent drawn any blood with mine,i've been waiting on some 20 gr CCI bullets not stocked in my area.I would think they would be excellant on bobcat which are thin-skinned/small boned.You have to agree that the 17hmr vs coyote has drawn alot of controversy here and on other varmint hunting sites.I think a 20 gr 17hmr will take any small game that a 22 mag 40 gr will,all things being equal.Heck,my buddy neck-shot a doe with a 22mag and she dropped like a rag doll.Please note,im not advocating shooting deer with a 22mag or 17hmr.
Shooter

handirifle · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2006, 02:08:25 PM »

Shooter
As far as killing effectiveness, I'm not sure, as I haven't done it yet myself, either, but on paper the 22 Mag has a considerable edge over the 17.

I read a lot on rimfirecentral.com and very few talk about coyote losses with the 22 mag, but you do hear of more with the 17.

There are those that will never hunt the dogs with the 17 and those that swear by them. A very divided group overall. One more reason I'm looking into a 22 mag for close range (under 100yds) predators.

I have a 223 and will try one with it before I decide for sure what the final weapon of choice will be.

Keith L · « **Reply #23 on:** February 15, 2006, 10:40:08 PM »

I quit going to rimfire central because of all the fools there that "swear by" using rimfires on game to large for rimfire use. Guys bragging about shooting yotes, feral goats, even a bear. By now someone must have shot an elephant with one. My guess is some have never really done it, and others have been lucky, or don't talk about the ones that got away. It is a far cry from fishing with light lines. One of my favorites was the guy who wanted to shoot yotes with a cb cap because of all the children in his neighborhood. Just what I would want: wounded animals in the bushes around the house for the kiddies to find.

TeePee · « **Reply #24 on:** February 17, 2006, 08:22:33 PM »

KEITH L don't condemn so quick for is it not the same here as rfc. I don't agree with using such a small and light projectile for those bigger such as cyotes unless it be with the punch of 223 at the least!, or greater for that 100yd shot or more. Even the 223 has it's limits as how far the shot is. I know what placement is about , but you must have the power to kill kleanly. ONE SHOT DROP DEAD! Just my belief some will argue. Just would not use the rimfire for such unless selfdefence or defence of others.