.357 Lever Action reloading

[brasschaser]

Was just looking in my Speer manual and under the .357 mag rifle section it says that all lever action .357 rifles have bolts that lock at the rear, which allows the bolt to spring during firing, stretching the case.  It then goes on to say to use only new or once fired cases for max loads.  So is loading for lever action .357 trouble and is it the same way w/ .44?  What kind of case life can you typically expect?

[Graybeard]

ALL and NEVER are a couple words you really should NEVER  use. Not all lever guns are born equal. The old Winchester 92 and all the imported clones of it are quite strong actions and lock up as solidly as anything. I can't imagine them damaging your cases even with the heaviest of book loads and I kinda doubt the Marlin or Winchester will to any great extent as long as book loads are used.

I've got a Rossi made .357 magnum but have yet to take it out to shoot it even tho it's been around coming up on two years now I think. I have shot the Rossi made EMF Hartford .45 Colt and with some pretty darn stiff loads and never noted any problem with case life. I've also shot our (I say that cuz Mrs. GB says it's HERS) Marlin 336 in .44. magnum a lot and sure have noticed any problem with case life from it.

[Oldtimer]

The problem of case stretching applies more to necked cases than to straight cases.  I have had more of a problem with case mouths cracking than stretching.   P.O. Ackley designed a number of improved cases that were essentially cyliindrical.  It is my understanding that he would show the advantage of the design by removing the locking lugs and firing the rifle. The straight walls of the case clung to the chamber until the pressure dropped and the actions never opened.  The comment about rear locking refers to the Winchester Model 94.  As Graybeard has noted, the 92, which is a miniature Model 86 action, is very strong.  It is more a mid locking action than rear locking.  I once tried a series with single cases to see how many loadings they would take before they stretched.  I finally got bored and quit before I had the first failure.  Now, if you are using a Model 66, 73, or 76, then all bets are off, regardless of how new the gun is.  They all have a radically different locing system, that is much weaker.

[Lloyd Smale]

like was said its with bottle neck rounds that the trouble shows up and its only when running loads on the ragged edge of common sense. Ive got 3030 brass that has been loaded 10 times with sane loads in a winchester and marlin that ive never trimmed

[brasschaser]

Thanks all for clearing this issue up for me.  The rifle I've been considering is a Puma, which is a Win 92 clone if I'm not mistaken.  I thought it was pretty odd for the Speer manual to include this warning on the .357 section and not others.  Haven't decided yet on .357 or .44 yet, but wanted one that I could make loads for without issues.  May end up going w/ the .44 though since it seems it might perform better for deer?  Is there much recoil difference between the two in a rifle? 

[Graybeard]

There is a noticeable difference just as in a handgun but neither has enough to worry about.

[gundownunder]

Recoil is a very personal thing.
Some people never seem to notice it while others will develop a flinch from the recoil of a .22.
Ten years ago I was shooting 30-06, 45-70 300 Win-mag and anything else I could get my hands on and loved all of them with a passion. Now I've got a prolapsed disk in my neck and a torn ligament in my shoulder, and a full factory load from my 357 is just about my limit. From memory the 44 was quite a bit stiffer in the recoil dept and also had a lot more muzzle lift under recoil. I would recommend that you try both and see which one you like more.

Bob

[nrb]

I reload both 357 and 44mag for pistol and rifle. First, the recoil from 44mag is much greater than from the 357 in both pistol and rifle. From a Marlin 1894, the recoil of hot 357 loads is modest. I favor Win 256 or Horn 110 powder with a 158gr soft nose. Been reloading both 357 and 44mag for several decades and trim cases occasionally but do not see any excess stretch.

best,  nrb

[Graybeard]

You guys must be loading a lot hotter than me. I have a VERY tender shoulder and even a 20 gauge on the skeet range is too much for it after a couple rounds so I shoot 28 or .410 almost exclusively. But my Marlin .44 mag with book max loads doesn't bother it. If you think about it the real world recoil numbers should be about like a .410 shotgun. In it I shoot 1/2 oz or 220 grains at 1200 fps. From the Marlin I run 240s about 1500-1600 fps max. Yeah that's a bit more recoil but not much more.

[Jerry Lester]

You guys must be loading a lot hotter than me. I have a VERY tender shoulder and even a 20 gauge on the skeet range is too much for it after a couple rounds so I shoot 28 or .410 almost exclusively. But my Marlin .44 mag with book max loads doesn't bother it. If you think about it the real world recoil numbers should be about like a .410 shotgun. In it I shoot 1/2 oz or 220 grains at 1200 fps. From the Marlin I run 240s about 1500-1600 fps max. Yeah that's a bit more recoil but not much more.

I agree with GB on this one. The Marlin lever actions are very light kickers in 357, and not much worse in 44 magnum, or 45 Colt. I have shot a couple Ruger lever action 44's that didn't so much kick, as "stung" my shoulder though. After shooting about 100 rounds one evening in one of them, my shoulder had a nice yellow/blue bruise on it. The Marlin 44's though(to me) seem to give about the same amount of recoil as a 30-30 but just a little snappier back into the shoulder.