Which "accurate" Civil war rifle?

[Trumpet]

Hey guys,
First post here. I'm looking for a civil war replica rifle for SASS side matches. An old friend from high school did re-enactments and had a '61 Springfield and it was awesome! Now which do you think was the most accurate rifle of the war (that if I bought a replica of, wouldn't break my bank)? How do the '61 Springfield, '63 Springfield, Zuoave, Enfield, all compare? Which manufacture will have the best "bang for the buck"? Dixie (Miroku Japan), Armisport, Euroarms?

Thanks so much
Rich

[Ramrod]

It is claimed that the 2 band Enfield was the most accurate of them all. But any of them will do for your purpose. The powder we have today is quite inferior to what was available back then, so working up a good load is much more important than which model you choose. Also, almost all serious competetors (N/SSA teams) have these imports re-barrelled.

[crow_feather]

For the shooter just wanting to start in the area of civil war rifles, the 58 cal Enfield was the most accurate of the standard war rifles in the 1860's.  I would imagine that they all are pretty much equally accurate if they are modern made.  The choice would go to whatever style you favor.  The hard part is buying lead bullets as each weighs 500 grains.  Bullet casting would save a bunch of money.

C F

[tryit]

Trumpet, the most accruate rifle in the modern repro rifles is the short heavy barreled rifles. The Zuoave is extremely popular but I like the Mississippi, style or the 1855 short pattern rifle with long range sights. I like the .54 cal over the .58. The Mississippi can be had in .54 or .58. The 1855 rifle is offered in only .58. I shoot the new Hodgon minnie that is less weight than the orginal and the bullet should be only 0.002 smaller than the lands of the rifle. This gives a snug fit to the bullet and really constitent shooting. The starting load will be about 35 grains and should around 40 grns. The long range sights are great when shooting at 100 yds or farther. Tryit.

[BillinOregon]

Tryit:
How does your 1841 Mississippi shoot with conicals and heavy loads? I am leaning toward one of the military minie shooters for a fall elk hunt. I've sort of figured a Zouave or two-band Enfield would be good choices, but I sure think that old Mississippi is about the prettiest military rifle this country ever produced.
One thing I have noticed is that the Italian makers are all over the map on twist rates, which are critical in choosing an accurate conical shooter. I can't figure out if they have settled in 1:56, 1:66 or 1:72, as they seem to be dropping their 1:48 barrels in the latest versions of the various muskets.

[tryit]

Bill, the Mississippi I have is 1in66 of which will stablize the new minnie very well. As far as heavy loads I do not know why you want them. The 420 gr. Hodgon bullet with 40 grs of powder is right at 900 fps. The bullet will cut clean thru a truck tire(cord to cord) and flatten on the steel backer plate. I have used 60 grs. and got fairly good accuracy but the bullet will pass thru the elk and expend its energy in the ground or a tree some where it will not do any good. If you can place a shot clean with 60 grs you will be as effective as any one out there. I would not take a shot over 125 yards with any muzzle loader. You cannnot be sure of the distance and accuracy. During the War for Southern Independence they found that one bullet would pass thru as many as 3 men. That is a lot of mass traveling at that speed. Tryit.

[kjg]

I second what tryit says I nailed a doe legth wise and did a texas heart shot ,the doe was in almost perfect aligenment with me and I was useing 80 grains of 2 fg goex and a hogdon mini ball the round came out just under her left eye she never new what hit her and was flattened to the ground next time i'm usun less powder to do the job tyhe .58's work well.kjg

[IntrepidWizard]

The Whentworth was the "sniper rifle " of the south,I have one from the field at Sharpsberg,Oct.barrel Hex twist rifling.

[BillinOregon]

Tryit:
You're using the RCBS .540 Hodgdon North-South Skirmish minie in your .54 Mississippi, right? With the hollow base plug or the flat base?

[dbm]

The Whentworth was the "sniper rifle " of the south,I have one from the field at Sharpsberg,Oct.barrel Hex twist rifling.

Whitworth? But this did not have an octagonal barrel.

I have no idea what you guys shoot in the SASS events, but a friend was shooting his Zouave in a recent match here in the UK. All the rest of us had Enfields. The Zouave has a lot of drop on the stock when compared with the Enfield. We were shooting prone at 200, 300 and 400 yds. and the shooter with the Zouave was suffering a bit with recoil due to the shape of the stock, at the longer distances. On the other hand if you are  shooting offhand at short range then the Zouave may give a better fit.

David

[tryit]

BillinOregon, yes I am using the hollow base bullet from the mentioned manufacturer. We are all very pleased with this bullet and it holds a lot of lube in the big ring at the back of the bullet. I use the lube that the Calvary Shop sells (N-SSA web site link to sutlers). I have fired as many as 60 rounds as fast as I could load without a problem. It is humid here in the east but as they say your milage may vary. Tryit.

[SeekHer]

Next to the "Chuck Guns" (The benchrest rifles of that era) the Whitworth .451 was and still is the most accurate...
stock design was for a prone target rifle and was comfortable to shoot, yet still easy to fire offhand...
The Zouve was designed to be fired offhand as a volley gun not prone as a target shooter...
I have a Volunteer rifle, also .451 but the accuracy falls a little compared to the Whitworth...
I think the problem is the twist being not exactly the same, although Parker Hale stated that they were...

[dbm]

Interesting you believe the accuracy of the Whitworth falls of against the 'Volunteer'.

Which version of the Volunteer do you have? The earliest Parker-Hale's had Rigby rifling, but this was later changed to Henry. My experience of the Volunteer was that it was a very accurate rifle and that it would at least match and generally out perform the Whitworth.

David

[SeekHer]

I bought my Parker Hale Volunteer actually before the Whitworth in 1982 or 3, I think.  So whether it's a Rigby, probably because of the purchase date, or a Henry I don't really know.  I then got a 3 band Enfield a year later and the year after that the Whitworth.

Don't get me wrong, she shoots fantastic, I've mostly gotten 3 shot clovers at 50 yds, so long as I'm doing my part correctly, but I get them almost constantly with the Whitworth.

They're both grouping about 5 shot <2" at 100 yds and <3½" at 200 yds but the Whitworth's are just a wee bit smaller.  I just think that the rifling is not quite the same...it seems that it might be off maybe 1" or 2" in the twist.  It's close but just not quite right.  

I'm not the only one to experience  this.  I've had about 20 friends try shooting them and everyone has had the same results.  I did not allow bias to come into the picture as I told them that there was no difference between the guns before shooting.

I can certainly live with either of them and am glad that I don't have to buy a new one, now...From what I've seen and tried, the quality just isn't there, at least not compared to the ones from the 1980s.  

I can't say that they're better than anything out there now, as I've not seen all the makers of Enfield replicas, but I think that I would still buy a Parker Hale over anything else.

I also presently own a Sharps rifle, a Spencer carbine and a Henry rifle.  I can fight both sides,  Reb or Berdan sharpshooter or just a member of either sides' line companies.  I still need to get for my collection a Zouave and a Springfield rifle and wishfully a Maynard and a Smith carbine.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

The powder we have today is quite inferior to what was available back then,

So glad to see someone else sayin' this.  I remember an anthropology professor explaining that the earlier flint arrowheads were much better quality that later arrowheads.  This puzzled all the students until he explained that the earlier hunter-gatherers depended heavily on the performance of their weaponry.  The later farmers needed to hunt only as a supplement to their diet.  Hence the farmers put less effort into quality arrowheads.

Same rationale applies with black powder.  In the 1860's if your black powder didn't perform well, your enemy would run a bayonet through you!  Today if your black powder doesn't perform well, you go home with a "one that got away" story.   As a consequence they paid more attention to the quality of the black powder.  Today black powder is just a toy thing, the serious business is in the smokeless powder.

However, thanks to a rather high demand, we are experiencing some decent bp's.  Swiss has been very good in my estimation - and worth the price.  But then, if bp is only a play thing to you, Swiss is probably too expensive.

[big T]

my first choice is the first edition parker hale.  mainly because i already own a 2 and 3 band.

judging by some results i have seen, and if i didn't already own the parker hale, i would choose the following. find the rifle and sight style that fit you the best.  i beleive in a well polished lock and quick trigger.  then i would top it with a whitacre or hoyt barrel.  (whitacre is a new barrel and hoyt is a re- line.

depending on what you can optain the rifle for, plus the moderate price for either barrel, you'll have a rifle that will shoot with the best of them.

but in all cases, you can have the most accurate rifle, but if you don't practice and learn how to use it, you have nothing.