Author Topic: 44 mag--get a 445 reamer, change primers, new powder? (Read 623 times)

bluebayou · « **on:** February 19, 2006, 07:47:42 PM »

Been loading the 44 for a year now. I just really been plinking with it. Been kind of disappointed lately with the groups. Realized a couple of months ago that I was loading the 300 XTP to the wrong OAL. Was loading to 1.72 (second cannelure) instead of 1.60 with 18-20 grains of H4227. I have been getting a lot of unburned powder at 1.72 OAL. Tried a firmer crimp. Didn't work. Tried the 1.60 OAL. Still unburned powder and now groups have doubled in size.

I was planning on a lighter bullet. The 240 Win White box is pretty accurate. But I got to thinking that the OAL change is really inaccurate because of the typical Handi freebore. So........

Should I try new primers? Only been using CCI Magnums

Should I rent a reamer to 445?

Should I go lighter bullet?

Lighter bullet would probably still give me unburned powder at H4227's speed---right? I know that Winchester's rifle primers are hotter. Are the Magnum Pistol ones hotter too?

Any ideas? That tax return is burning a hole in my pocket. Got to get some new reloading stuff.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2006, 02:52:21 AM »

bb'

don't let the tax return burn a hole in your pocket. you are a better person than that.

LARGE rifle primers are Not the same 'height' as pistol primers. small rifle primers are the same height as small pistol primers. if you go with a large rifle primer (i don't recommend it) you'll have to square up the primer pockets with a large rifle primer pocket reamer so that it'll be deeper to handle the rifle 'caps'.

H-4227 is a very slow powder as far as revolvers go. IMR 4227 is a little faster. Alliant 2400 is faster, and is usually well-ignited with a Winchester large pistol primer. I have used it myself. '2400' is a somewhat dirty powder, but it gives good velocities and accuracy. Accurate Arms #9 would be an alternative that should help with the unburned powder problem. (load #9 fairly heavy as well, working up to a max' load in a reasonable manner).

you may want to try another sizing die! your die may not be sizing the brass tight enough. a firm crimp (not overdone) is necessary, but the sizing die must do its job too. do not flare the case any more than is necessary, however.

i recommend you seat the bullet to the longer COAL' to get the better accuracy, use a WLR primer, go withaa stout load of '2400' (work up to it), Remington brass (not winchester which is softer in this caliber), and keep a decent crimp.

i would not, at this time, go to a .445 with this rifle. i'd figure out this problem before going any further.

if you would, please read up on the various topics at www.garrettcartridges.com they make some Very, Very powerful .44 mag' loads. you can accomplish a lot with a 44 mag'.

Ed Matunas in a Handloader's Digest some years ago wrote about IMR Hi-Skor 800-X being an excellent propellant in the .44 mag'. He was very impressed by it. you may want to search for some .44 mag' loads using that powder.

Good shooting to you,

ss'

safetysheriff · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2006, 03:00:12 AM »

bb'

a problem with the server has this posting totally out of hand!

Good shooting to you,

ss'

safetysheriff · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2006, 03:03:43 AM »

first i double-posted, then deleted the whole topic (not supposed to be possible), and then blah, blah, blah.

you get it.

what's wrong here?

Ranger J · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2006, 03:44:15 AM »

The .44 mag is one of the two calibers that I have seen the most complaints about accuracy in this forum. The other is the .243 but I have no real experience with it. My 44mag Handi, which I would rather shoot than any other one I own, has been a real project. Evidently a lot of the 44s have oversize bores. Why Handi cant produce them at the industry standard escapes me butAnyhow mine measures between .431 and .432 while most jacketed bullets are at .429. This could be why most people have had better luck with Hornady jacketed bullets which are .430. The other option is to go with some hard cast lead bullets in a larger size. I have had reasonable results with laser cast (.431) and light loads of AA#2. Another option is Buffalo bullets at .432 but these can be quite pricey when you add the shipping. Going to the .445 reamer will not help if you have one of the barrels that are just too large. You could still be faced with the same problem of the bullet rattling down the barrel (simplistic). I love my .44 Handi but have yet to achieve close to the accuracy I get from my Ruger .44 Deerfield. It is still a work in progress.
RJ

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2006, 03:50:22 AM »

Before you go too crazy trying to figure out your rifle, you need to know the dimensions of your rifle's bore. You can do this by slugging the bore or by a making a casting using cerrosafe. If your bore is a bit oversize, say .430, and you're shooting .428" bullets, then you'll have the devil of a time trying different loads without much success.

The fact that the Winchester stuff is "pretty accurate" tells me that the OAL is not the root cause of your accuracy problem.

Find out the dimensions of your bore then start using bullets that fit it properly and you'll have better luck.

PS Ranger ya beat me too it!

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2006, 04:09:29 AM »

I got the best accurcy from mine with a max charge of H 110 and a 300 gr. XTP in the 2 nd. channellure. My bore measured .432 and the chamber was .006 oversized. I reamed mine to a 445 supermag and after changing to a different reciever,I'm getting 11/4" at 100. These loads in the 445 are doing 2166 fps. with the 265 gr. Hornady. Digger

Ranger J · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2006, 04:19:54 AM »

Digger
Good to hear that you can still shoot 44 mag in the 445 with reasonable accuracy. The 445 project sorely tempts me, though why I need another caliber to reload and I have a great 45/70-barrel. :twisted: get thee behind me!
RJ

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2006, 06:24:52 AM »

Ranger,just to throw a little more temptation at you.The 445 supermag will do 1975 fps. with the 300 gr. XTP with only 30.5 grs. of 296 and less recoil than the 45 70. About 12 of us have done it,and there chrono's match mine within just a few fps. :-D :-D :-D Digger

safetysheriff · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2006, 08:01:59 AM »

if you should determine that you have an oversize bore, and probably before you go to a .445 SM' chamber, you can get some gas-checked, relatively soft lead bullets and try those for accuracy. because of the gas check they will not lead and they will grip the rifling, and because of the soft lead they will obdurate and fill the bore for accuracy. a gas-checked, soft lead bullet may be an easy alternative for you that will give both accuracy and good killing power if you go hunting.

you are not out of the game with a 'large' bore if you find the right projectile and load combination.

ss'

Ranger J · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2006, 08:14:32 AM »

Digger
You are an evil, evil man! Who makes brass and dyes for the .455? Evil, Evil! :twisted: :twisted:
RJ

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2006, 10:43:53 AM »

Ranger your 44 mag dies will work,and the brass is Starline at Midway.A lot of the guy's that have them call them a true woodshammer,and after 3 hogs(one of them in excess of 400 pds.) and 1 deer,I agree. Digger

safetysheriff · « **Reply #12 on:** February 20, 2006, 11:15:54 AM »

Quote from: Ditchdigger

Ranger,just to throw a little more temptation at you.The 445 supermag will do 1975 fps. with the 300 gr. XTP with only 30.5 grs. of 296 and less recoil than the 45 70. About 12 of us have done it,and there chrono's match mine within just a few fps. :-D :-D :-D Digger

Dd'

one of the 'good nuns' once told me that i had a 'rubber conscience' which would stretch to fit any size or shape of temptation that fell into my path!

have you ever been told any such?

i'm guessing that you have! :wink:

ss'

bluebayou · « **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2006, 01:25:32 PM »

Okay, how do I slug the bore. Assuming that I don't have any Cerrosafe laying around. I have been shooting the Hornady because of its 430 size. I figured that has been the small end of the spectrum here at GBO. Guess that you guys could be right about it being much larger. So get some cheap gas check bullets after I find the size eh?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** February 20, 2006, 01:38:50 PM »

Here's a bore slugging tutorial, if I remember correctly, a #8 egg sinker will work for the .44.

Tim

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm

bluebayou · « **Reply #15 on:** February 20, 2006, 03:05:47 PM »

First search result with Google. Got lazy there, sorry about that.

DPRinks · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2006, 04:26:33 PM »

When I got my .44 mag.barrel and slugged it, I was not happy.
Microgroove and .431" groove diameter.
I called customer service and asked what was standard and what the tolerances were.
.431 it the H&R standard and their tolerances are on all barrels are + - .002.
I really should have checked before buying, as I did not, I got in one a group buy for a .434 , 250 gr mold,added a gas check and have very decent accuracy, 1" or less at 50 yds.
As long as I keep the BHN above 16 and the size at .432 or larger, no real problems.
Don

bluebayou · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2006, 09:07:22 AM »

Well, on the way home today I will stop at Gander Mountain and get some Winchester primers. Don't know if they have any cast bullets. Tonight (hopefully) I will slug the barrel and see what the diameter is. For $1.79 I figure that the Winchester Large Pistol primer is worth a try on the unburned powder.