Author Topic: Cheney shot some guy! (Read 1583 times)

DakotaElkSlayer · « **on:** February 12, 2006, 06:24:29 PM »

Caught it on Fox News... While quail hunting in Texas, Cheney shot one of the guys in the hunting party in the face and chest with a shotgun blast. The distance was 30yds and non of the pellets hit the guy in the eyes...thank God!
It was very interesting hearing the non-hunter newscaster discuss the incident....the guy was talking about "buckshot"!! :shock:

I am betting "reckless discharge of a firearm" charges won't be filed...any takers???

Jim

mjbgalt · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2006, 06:42:44 PM »

supposedly the guy was behind them and they didn't know it and the guy didn't say anything to let them know he was there and when quail flushed cheney snapped a shot toward one and it hit the guy.

that's what i got when i looked on yahoo a few minutes ago.

-Matt

Mikey · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2006, 01:58:23 AM »

mjbgalt: that's also what I got from AOL last night. It appears the fault was with the hunter who got hit for coming up from behind the VP as he was swinging on a bird.

Dang glad it wasn't more serious. Neither the wounded hunter, the VP or the rest of America's shooting community needed anything more serious. Mikey.

magooch · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2006, 08:27:37 AM »

I did hear that the VP has now invited Hillary on his next quail hunt. I hope he also invites Algore.

NYH1 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2006, 10:10:25 AM »

Statistically I'd say it's still safer to go quail hunting with Cheney then it is to ride in a car with Ted Kennedy! :gulp:

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2006, 11:04:56 AM »

Quote from: Mikey

It appears the fault was with the hunter who got hit for coming up from behind the VP as he was swinging on a bird.

I dare you to go to a hunter's safety course and say that! :wink:

Jim

Ocsamschainsaw · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2006, 01:49:27 PM »

Seems to me like some basic hunter's safety things weren't followed.
Shame on the VP for doing this, but frankly, shame on ANYONE for not practicing basic safety with such dangerous tools.
I love guns just as much as anyone else here, but you can't afford to be an idiot with them. I didn't appreciate his comments that "THis sort of thing happens all the time" and that "I've been peppered a few times myself" as I saw quoted on CNN-what sort of message does that send out to our young hunters?
Wish they'd spent more time emphasizing how safe hunting and shooting in general can be WHEN BASIC RULES ARE FOLLOWED instead of trivializing the wounds to make Mr. Cheney look good.
-1 cool point for Mr. Cheney there. Not the kind of guy I'd want on my range.

dukkillr · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2006, 02:17:50 PM »

i was always taught to know what was behind your target... i believe that under 99% of circumstances the shooter is as fault here...

I upland hunt a great deal, and everyone knows that it is their responsibility to know where the rest of the party is before pulling the trigger.

bubba · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2006, 03:35:26 PM »

he got a warning ticket not a real one and as far as I am concerned the guy with the gun in his hand is the responsible one. He was hunting without the necessary bird permit Funny part they were reporting by the bias networks that he got out of going to vietnam because he could not handle a firearm got a pass from it, Dont know if that is true but if it is kind foi weird I would say

mjbgalt · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2006, 04:15:32 PM »

hmmm.

yeah sounds like he definitely should have known where everyone else was. i always try to when i am hunting. however if someone did sneak in behind him i suppose i could possibly see that happening.

It does sound like they may have made it sound as good as possible for him.

-Matt

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2006, 05:18:39 PM »

You guys got to read what the witness said. Ya, I am sure it was an accident, but the story is really fishy! There's roadhunting, hunters with guides but have to retrieve their own birds. Hunting in "tall sedge" and the guy who was shot was standing at a lower elevation. And to end it off, talk of being "peppered" is commonplace. I don't know about you guys, but getting a face of pellets at only THIRTY YARDS isn't what we call getting peppered in Michigan.

Jim

TenRing · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2006, 05:22:04 PM »

The man who got shot sure isn't saying much. Dad's brother shot dad's dog one time in much the same situation. Didn't hurt the dog too bad but made him terribly gun-shy. Dad wouldn't hunt with him after that.

Alaskan · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2006, 07:21:08 PM »

And now today Cheney was issued a warning ticket by Texas Parks & Wildlife for not having the required stamp on his hunting license...no bird stamp... I guess he couldn't afford the the 7 bucks....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/13/cheney/index.html

`RS · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2006, 11:42:46 PM »

Mr. Cheney would serve himself well if he admitted fault in this and promised to try to aim for a liberal next time.

jh45gun · « **Reply #14 on:** February 14, 2006, 06:30:46 AM »

All I will say on this is accidents happen even with Vice Presidents and that No matter how safe you may be accidents still can happen. As far as the stamp goes Alaskan, I would figure was a oversight as if your going to buy a license that cost over a hundred bucks your sure as hell not going to skimp on a 7 dollar stamp. Since this was a new stamp this year I would bet that Cheney did not know about it since he has hunted quail in Texas before this. Who ever sold him the license should have mentioned the stamp. The guy that got shot also should have said he was behind them Yea it is for the shooter to decide when safe to shoot but I have been in the woods or on shore and told others were I were if I figured there was a chance I may have shots in my direction. It makes sense to do so than risk some one shooting in your direction so while the blame goes to Cheney on this for being the shooter the guy who got shot could have avoided it if he had opened his mouth. We all know lawyers can do that now don't we? :wink:

Siskiyou · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2006, 07:52:36 AM »

As an X Hunter Safety Instructor I cannot give Cheney a free ride regarding this accident. Most of my quail hunting involves Mt. Quail. I always have my radar working full time. In the tarrain we hunt in it is very diffcult to maintain a good line with other hunters. I always wear an orange hat and safety glasses. My son-in-law wears the latest camo.

One incident scared me. We had birds on the ground and the dog went into the brush to find them. Additional birds busted out of the brush. I was tracking a bird about five feet off the ground and swing to my right. When my son-in-law came into my vision. He had gone from my left side to my right side after a bird.

I unloaded my shotgun and it was time to discuss our hunting methods so we were on the same page. It would have been a major family disaster if I had fired a round. We both realize the importance of safe hunting practices and have no problems discussing how we are going to hunt safely.

Cheney should be treated by Texas authorities the same as they would any other hunter under the same circumstances. Also remember that most people in the same circumstance do not run out and make a press release. They are dealing with more important issues. Just the emotion of screwing up big time and hurting somebody takes time to deal with. Do you think that Teddy made an immediate press release when he broke the surface of the water?

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2006, 08:07:33 AM »

Plain and simple , if you do not know were all of your hunters are .

DO NOT SHOOT !!!!!

Mauser · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2006, 08:16:53 AM »

I concur with one of the earlier posters who said that Cheney appears to have broken several hunter's safety rules. I have been a hunter safety instructor and (I hope) that the 12 year olds I've taught remember to never shoot where you don't KNOW what is behind your target.

Cheney has not done hunters any favors here. If you are the VP of the United States and you are going hunting you hunt with all of the rest of us hunters with you. You had better be darn near perfect safety-wise or you shouldn't go. That goes with the territory of being in public life. What would otherwise be a somewhat serious hunting accident becomes something much more given the characters involved.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2006, 09:14:10 AM »

Quote from: TM7

.
News update....pellets have migrated around the shot attorneys heart and have caused a minor heartattack...he's 78 years old.

...................TM7

Isn't that quite a bit of penetration for birdshot at 30yds???

Jim

dcnewyork · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2006, 09:21:19 AM »

I was always taught that YOU are the only one responsible for YOUR shots!
I also know that YOU are responsible for YOUR lisense, stamps, stickers!
I know that here in NY if you are fishing and you forget your lisense (in your other pants or otherwise do not have it on you), you get a ticket for not carrying it, even if you take it and show it to the judge on your court date.
I have never been to texas, so maybe they do things different there.

Siskiyou · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2006, 11:38:43 AM »

It is not unusual for small shot or even a .22 bullet to get into a blood vessal and then get pumped into the heart. I have no clue if this is what happen in this incident. Over the years I have heard of two or three people who have died from gunshot that did not seem life threatening. In one case the victim was shot in an arm or leg an passed away a week later with the bullet in the heart.

I know this was discussed in one of my LEO classes.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2006, 05:09:52 AM »

Since he wasn't on any sort of a WMA, would you not have to assume that the shot was lead, not steel. Fox News just showed an animation of the victims wounds. He took pellets from the lower cheek to the upper chest above the nipple....a pretty tight pattern for a quail gun at 30yds.

Jim

Theshootist78 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2006, 05:57:01 AM »

I am sure we will nver hear the whole story. We must all learn from his mistake, and aim better

FWiedner · « **Reply #23 on:** February 15, 2006, 06:17:50 AM »

Quote from: Alaskan

And now today Cheney was issued a warning ticket by Texas Parks & Wildlife for not having the required stamp on his hunting license...no bird stamp... I guess he couldn't afford the the 7 bucks....

The upland game bird stamp is new this year. Being from Wyoming, the VP probably didn't feel a need to review the game regs since he was hunting on private property and with a lawyer, (whom he decided to shoot anyway). Or maybe he just decided to skip the birds and bought a lone-star snake stamp...

Quote from: DakotaElkSlayer

Isn't that quite a bit of penetration for birdshot at 30yds???

Texas lawyers get brittle and stinky at that age, kinda soft and thin skinned. Probly lucky he didn't pop like a water balloon or just leak empty like one o' them old backyard kiddy pools...

:-)

Ocsamschainsaw · « **Reply #24 on:** February 15, 2006, 12:39:16 PM »

Now what would happen to you or I if we did the same thing? I wonder?

Leverdude · « **Reply #25 on:** February 15, 2006, 02:01:10 PM »

Probly bout the same thing except it would only be local news.

Sourdough · « **Reply #26 on:** February 17, 2006, 07:57:09 AM »

After hearing the story told by wittnesses and Mr. Chaney, and being a hunter safety instructor, and a bird hunter, and having hunted Texas birds, I have a few of my own conclusions. And steel shot is only required for migratory birds (Ducks, Geese, and such), Quail are not migratory so lead shot is used for them. Also depending on his level of markmanship, he may have been using a tighter choke to make it a bit more challenging. At 30 yards most shotguns will not have opened up that much, at least not as much as most people think.

1. When hunting in formation everyone has an established field of fire. if someone drops out the fire of fire for the remaining members changes. If that individual decides to return he should make his intention known to all members before returning to his former position.

2. The individual shot had left the formation, then returned without notifying his comrads. Mr. Chaney not knowing his comrade had returned and was now in his field of fire, did not know to modify his field of fire. In other words the guy was somewhere he was not supposed to be.

3. While Mr. Chaney is responsiable because he pulled the trigger, I can't fault him. I feel the fault lies with the guy that got shot.

bubba · « **Reply #27 on:** February 18, 2006, 02:13:41 PM »

I heard a new theory today. It was the second gunman on the grassy knoll.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #28 on:** February 20, 2006, 06:38:00 PM »

Quote from: Sourdough

After hearing the story told by wittnesses and Mr. Chaney, and being a hunter safety instructor, and a bird hunter, and having hunted Texas birds, I have a few of my own conclusions. And steel shot is only required for migratory birds (Ducks, Geese, and such), Quail are not migratory so lead shot is used for them. Also depending on his level of markmanship, he may have been using a tighter choke to make it a bit more challenging. At 30 yards most shotguns will not have opened up that much, at least not as much as most people think.

1. When hunting in formation everyone has an established field of fire. if someone drops out the fire of fire for the remaining members changes. If that individual decides to return he should make his intention known to all members before returning to his former position.

2. The individual shot had left the formation, then returned without notifying his comrads. Mr. Chaney not knowing his comrade had returned and was now in his field of fire, did not know to modify his field of fire. In other words the guy was somewhere he was not supposed to be.

3. While Mr. Chaney is responsiable because he pulled the trigger, I can't fault him. I feel the fault lies with the guy that got shot.

The blast, with the exception of a few fliers, created a pattern of under 16 inches if you have seen the diagrams on Fox News. At thirty yards that's real tight. No one I have ever heard of use a full choke for quail....why would one want destroy the bird's meat? Betting Cheney was shooting a cylinder/cylinder or improved cylinder at the tightest.

I was an Orvis guide for years and NEVER did a client have to retrieve his own bird(reason stated for the guy leaving the group).

Ya gotta look at the facts....guided hunt, quail, tight pattern, PENETRATION to the heart. All those thing point to the guy getting hit at much closer range than 30 yards. That is, unless you don't believe politicians and lawyers can lie. :-D

Jim