Author Topic: .303 in a modern action (Read 1779 times)

kevin.303 · « **on:** January 25, 2006, 03:43:59 AM »

i've always thought it would be neat to have a modern bolt action chambered in .303 British. this has been discussed before, but since the Stevens 200 and Remington 700 SPS are so cheap i wonder if anyone has tried it yet? i've seen .311" barrels in the States, but not here in Canada, and only made by one or two companies.would have to use a magnum model, since the magnum case head is the same diameter as the rimmed case. maybe it would be better to opt for .30-40 Krag since .308" barrels are more common, but .303 is my first love.

1911crazy · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2006, 08:30:03 PM »

Right now SOG (southern ohio gun) is offering a 303 britt jungle sporter in a synthetic stock for $259. Thats about as close to a modern rifle as i guess we will see. Its funny your right we see other military calibers like the 6,5mm swede, .223rem and 7mm mauser in modern rifles but we never see a 303 britt. Maybe there's not enough interest in having one so a build would necessary to get one. There is a rework of a russian SVT-40 Tokarev being made into a 303 semi auto. I'm surprised its the only WW2 country(england) that never had a 303 semi-auto rifle during the war odd. Is the 303 round very popular in Canada?

Lone Star · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2006, 02:56:20 AM »

In spite of the immense number of military rifles in these chamberings, the issue is the same one which plagues the 7.62 x 54R - the rim. Modern bolt rifles are designed for rimless cases and do not accomodate rimmed cases well at all. They can be modified for single loading, but feeding from standard magazines is problematic. Add this to the fact that the market for non-US military chamberings is relatively small and it becomes clear why we don't see modern rifles in these chamberings. If someone wants a .303 he can purchase a used SMLE for less than he can a new rifle anyway.

Mikey · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2006, 04:01:19 AM »

kevin.303 - interesting thought ya'll have there, a modern bolt rifle in 303 Brit. Probably have to do it up yourself - find an action (I would use a P14 or a M17 with a P14 bolt) and have it barrelled. However, the P14/17 actions and the SMLE actions seem to weigh a ton. I know the Montana Rifleman produces barrels in 303 British and will rebarrel in that caliber but finding the right action that won't stretch your arm after an hour in the field.

If you could find a Winchester 1985 you could have it rebarrelled or chambered to 303 Brit - I believe they came in that caliber. Too bad you can't do the same with a M94 but I think the action is too short to handle the 303.

Of course, that doesn't preclude you from finding a used modern varmit rifle with the right sized bolt head and action length. I think the 220 Swift comes to mind. Also, you could always find a shot out 6.5 Swede or an 8mm Mauser, have the bolt face opened up a bit and have it rebarrelled - that's about as modern as you can get, seeing as how they are still producing Mauser actions. HTH. Mikey.

Lone Star · « **Reply #4 on:** January 26, 2006, 04:58:14 AM »

Quote

....a modern bolt rifle....a P14 or a M17...M94....a shot out 6.5 Swede or an 8mm Mauser...

Heheheheh

.

1911crazy · « **Reply #5 on:** January 26, 2006, 07:33:11 AM »

Mikey; I was just thinking a lever action in 303 britt? I think there is a No1 Mk4 conversion right now too its a cut down into a jungle carbine and a neat looker too. I just took one of my britts apart to clean it she's a No1 MkIII Indian '43 in 303 it was $79 @ AIM a while back. You can't pass these up when there this cheap. The gun was soaked in cosmo the wood stock is bleeding cosmo out of it still. It looks like a black plastic bag in the hot sun project to get the cosmo out of the stock. The rest of the gun has no paint left on it but i'm in love with her already she has a great looking pipe with plenty of life left in her. I still have a case of surplus 303 britt stashed away unopened yet thats going to change soon too.

S.S. · « **Reply #6 on:** January 26, 2006, 11:29:17 AM »

A guy at the range a while back had a single shot
in .303 Brit. It was a Beautiful rifle that appeared to be on a Ruger #1 Action. Deadly deadly and did I mention DEADLY accurate...
If I see him again I will get more details.

Big Paulie · « **Reply #7 on:** January 26, 2006, 12:22:16 PM »

If you want a modern bolt .303, then I agree that the closest way to get their is to do what our fathers and grandfathers did (and for which there are lots and lots of books/articles/plans for): Find a good P-14, and then sporterize it! You would be amazed at how nice a rifle you can make. Of course, you will spend lots of money in gunsmith fees (my guess, about $300 to $500), but what the heck, it will be neat anyway.

Take a look at some of the old gunsmithing books, and the old Williams Sight Compay paperback book on converting military rifles, and you will see what I mean. This was regarded as very routine stuff back in the 40s and 50s. This would include cutting and rewelding the bottom of the magazine well, to remove that "downward bulge," and putting it into a new stock. Again, very easy stuff for a competent gunsmith.

Big Paulie

kevin.303 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 26, 2006, 02:53:38 PM »

researched it, and here's what i've come up with.as most of you know one reason why the P14 is popular for customs is the magnum boltface is the same s the .303. so here's my plan. use a Remington M700 SPS in .300 WM for a starting platform. aside from Montana Rifleman and PacNor, there are afew Canadian barrel makers that offer .311" bores too. i would order from the US, but Canada has a $100 import fee on barrels. ream it out to .303 Epps, which is simply a .303 British case with a 40 degree shoulder angle, gives it a higher velocity and much improved case life, but can still use factory .303 in it.could go with a Stevens 200 as a base action, but i prefer the look of the M700.

Airsporter · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2006, 12:53:26 AM »

Best bet might be to try and find a Siamese Mauser. Used to be cheap but are getting a bit scarce. They were designed for the 8x50mm rimmed cartridge from the start. Very popular for conversion (rebarrel) to .303 and 45-70. As I remember, Navy Arms used to sell them 'sporterized' in 45-70. Here's a couple related links:

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/siammauser/index.asp

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/bigboresiam/index.asp

kombi1976 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2006, 01:16:21 AM »

I love this guy. :lol:
Kev, you keep the home flame burning.
And, yeah, you hardly ever see ex-mil cartridges apart from US ones chambered in new rifles.
CZ and Sako and other Euro companies chamber the 6.5x55 primarily & the 8x57 almost exclusively in new rifles.
If there was a decent sized arms company in one of the old British Empire countries they may've offered a modern .303 sporter but, since Winchester bought out & killed Australia's small arms industry in the 1960s, Britain systematically regulated theirs to pieces & everywhere else is either under-developed or too chaotic, it looks like it's up to Kev to maul a new Remington! :shock:

My preference would be for a 303 Epps Martini Enfield sporter. :grin:
Much like the Ruger No.1 mentioned.
More class. :wink:

kevin.303 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 29, 2006, 06:11:52 AM »

Quote from: kombi1976

I love this guy. :lol:
Kev, you keep the home flame burning.
And, yeah, you hardly ever see ex-mil cartridges apart from US ones chambered in new rifles.
CZ and Sako and other Euro companies chamber the 6.5x55 primarily & the 8x57 almost exclusively in new rifles.
If there was a decent sized arms company in one of the old British Empire countries they may've offered a modern .303 sporter but, since Winchester bought out & killed Australia's small arms industry in the 1960s, Britain systematically regulated theirs to pieces & everywhere else is either under-developed or too chaotic, it looks like it's up to Kev to maul a new Remington! :shock:
My preference would be for a 303 Epps Martini Enfield sporter. :grin:
Much like the Ruger No.1 mentioned.
More class. :wink:

more class for sure, but lots more money. hmmm, could use a mauser, but not really my first choice. in my opinion it's a much inferior arm when compared with the Lee Enfield. been told that due to extractor design, a Ruger or Savage would be a better starting platform then a Remington, and anyways, i'm boycotting Remington. my gunsmith is gonna have a look with me at the spring gunshows for a project, but if i know myself, and i think i do, i'll go in with $500, come out broke and with nothing i intended on buying when i got there!

kevin.303 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2006, 07:32:13 AM »

Quote from: kombi1976

I love this guy. :lol:
Kev, you keep the home flame burning.
And, yeah, you hardly ever see ex-mil cartridges apart from US ones chambered in new rifles.
CZ and Sako and other Euro companies chamber the 6.5x55 primarily & the 8x57 almost exclusively in new rifles.
If there was a decent sized arms company in one of the old British Empire countries they may've offered a modern .303 sporter but, since Winchester bought out & killed Australia's small arms industry in the 1960s, Britain systematically regulated theirs to pieces & everywhere else is either under-developed or too chaotic, it looks like it's up to Kev to maul a new Remington! :shock:
My preference would be for a 303 Epps Martini Enfield sporter. :grin:
Much like the Ruger No.1 mentioned.
More class. :wink:

more class for sure, but lots more money. hmmm, could use a mauser, but not really my first choice. in my opinion it's a much inferior arm when compared with the Lee Enfield. been told that due to extractor design, a Ruger or Savage would be a better starting platform then a Remington, and anyways, i'm boycotting Remington. my gunsmith is gonna have a look with me at the spring gunshows for a project, but if i know myself, and i think i do, i'll go in with $500, come out broke and with nothing i intended on buying when i got there!

Stan in SC · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2006, 03:53:19 AM »

Kevin,
Here's a thought.Back in the 70's there was a company called Golden State Arms which had the Santa Fe Rifles division.They took .303's and made sporters from them.There were 11 models.Some were simply sporterized military rifles.The top of the line was a model called 1941Supreme.It was a modified No.4 action with aftermarket Douglas barrel and Bishop stock.Beautiful rifles and great shooters.I happened on one about a year ago at a gunshow and bought it.Basically it is a "new" rifle.I scoped mine and now it is one of the best hunting rifles I have.
You can find these for around $150 to $200 at gunshows.Many times someone will look at a sporterized .303 and think it is just a military rifle cut down.Collectors see them and just look over them.They are missing a bargain.To identify these you look on the top of the barrel and it will give the model name.Another identifier is the special made 5 shot magazine which will say Santa Fe-made in Japan on them.
Next gun show you go to,pay special attention any sporterized .303's you see.You might be surprised at what you find.

Stan

kombi1976 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2006, 12:23:08 PM »

Quote from: kevin.303

more class for sure, but lots more money. hmmm, could use a mauser, but not really my first choice. in my opinion it's a much inferior arm when compared with the Lee Enfield. been told that due to extractor design, a Ruger or Savage would be a better starting platform then a Remington, and anyways, i'm boycotting Remington. my gunsmith is gonna have a look with me at the spring gunshows for a project, but if i know myself, and i think i do, i'll go in with $500, come out broke and with nothing i intended on buying when i got there!

LOTS more class, worth the dollars and not as much as you may think.
By sticking to a 303 based cartridge it means no fiddling with the extractor and as a walnut semi-finished stock is under $200 plus postage it's quite accessable.
Toss in an extra $100 for some figured walnut and up she goes.
Plus I'll be nickel plating the receiver and bluing everything else for a really slick look & if my gunsmith can fiddle the trigger like he did on my Cadet sporter it'll be amazing.
Add some express sights and a side mount & I'm still looking at the $1000 mark but I think it's worth it.
Proper Martini sporters have good re-sale value, not that it's my intention, rather the opposite in fact.
Good on you for flipping Remington the bird but good luck at the gunshow. :wink:
I think you'll be wrestling with that demon. :lol:

Harold50 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2006, 10:13:54 AM »

Of course, one could just shoot a Remington 721 in 300 Savage?

I've missed the point haven't I...haven't I?

I've been shooting a load consisting of a pair of .312 round balls out of my Brit over some SR 4759 lubed with vaseline. That's fun, too.

Best Wishes,
Harold

fat tony · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2006, 12:48:22 PM »

I had a friend who inherited some stuff from his grand parents who used to run a country store, some of this was some kind of Canadian hunting magazine from the 1950's, there was an advsertisement in it for a mauser action based sporter chambered in .303 British, I don't know for sure, but I think it was a BSA rifle. Maybe you could put a wanted ad out for one of these rifles, I have never seen one even up here in Canada, where the .303 British is indeed very popular, and has been all through out the 20th century and up to today, so it must be a rare rifle.

Mikey · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2006, 02:29:30 PM »

I passed on a beautiful No4 Mk1 that was an English (England) sporter. It wasn't BSA, it was one of the other well known English gunmakers who did this. It went to a young fella who was looking for his first hunting rifle and I enjoyed the opportunity to sell him on that 303 rifle and the caliber. Thankfully I already had enough 303 Rifles so I didn't mind letting one go.

However, I gotta say that I must be getting old. I completely missed Kevin.303s point - 'in a modern bolt action rifle'. Then, after I wandered way off course ol Kevin yourownself comes up with the right idea - a nice Remington 700 action - good, solid, nice and light. Great choice! Yes, you could find an old M17 and a P14 bolt, or convert this or that but you could probably have a new rifle made for you at about the same cost for the Rem action, a new barrel and the gunsmithing to put it all together.

I gotta thank Lone Star for pointing out how 'modern' I wuz thinkin' (thank you for being so diplomatic) and for being right on target about new rifles and older rimmed cartridges.

So, you either go with something like the guys suggested, stick with your idea 'cuz it's a good one (and I would be interested to see what the enitre package from concept to test fire was run) or, just fer the hay of it see if you can find out what the Montana Rifleman or someone would charge to put together a 303 Brit or Epps on one of their new actions - that would be about as new as it could get and might even be in the ballpark. Mikey.

90north · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2006, 09:17:53 AM »

IIRC the Model 95 Winchester was chambered in 7.62X54R, that would make a nice converson. I had one of the Santa Fe sporters, the mid line verson. Had a 5 round magazine and was a nice rifle. Traded it off for something I just had to have, don't remember what now.

kevin.303 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2006, 02:28:33 PM »

7.62x54R's M95's are very rare, and besides, Winchester also factory chambered the 1895 to .303 anyways. i've ben told that the remington design is not the ideal one for this project, because of the extractor design. will have to investigate further. maybe on of thosenew Savage 114 classic models....

fat tony · « **Reply #20 on:** February 27, 2006, 05:34:53 AM »

When I was a lad the .303 Parker Hale SMLE sporter conversions were offered for sale at the Home Hardware store in Dartmouth( they've pulled out of Dartmouth long ago, wish they would come back). I'm in the market for one I recently learned of in a private sale. It's fun to try and relive your youth sometimes eh?