Author Topic: Black Beauty!  (Read 1503 times)

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Offline Karl B. Andersen

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Black Beauty!
« on: April 06, 2006, 03:13:54 AM »
Fancy Black Utility!
Forged from heavy 5160 stock with differential heat treatment.
Black Canvas Micarta handle.
Hot blued mild steel fittings.
Full take-down configuration.
That little gadget in the photo is the "wrench" to take the knife apart. The small end is turned in my lathe to exactly fit the hole in the pommel nut for removal.
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.

Offline Graybeard

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2006, 07:10:20 AM »
Do you make ONLY that one blade with various handles? It seems every image I've seen you show is the same blade but with a variety of different handles on them.  :?:


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Karl B. Andersen

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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2006, 07:28:15 AM »
They are most certainly similar in profile, but you only get to see two dimensions.
Why should I make a different blade? Would this blade not do everything you could think of?
I have two Bowies coming off the forge this week that are slightly different, as well as two spear points.
How many different blade styles do you make?
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.

Offline Graybeard

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2006, 07:45:30 AM »
Me? I don't make knives, I just provide this site for you folks to post on for free.  :lol:  I was just wondering if it was your only one or only your favorite style as all of them looked so much the same blade wise.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline Karl B. Andersen

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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2006, 08:39:58 AM »
Let's put it this way - it's my favorite style.
Kind of like bying a Corvette. All different colors and interiors and options, etc. But, they're all still Corvettes!
My blades are different widths, lengths and thicknesses according to their intended purpose.
I think of Custom Bowyers. I can spot a Palmer take-down recurve across the street! Been made the same for 20 years! They shoot great! Different riser and limb materials, but the basic bow hasn't changed in 20 years.
Why should I make a different blade style if this one works and works well?  
The difference is what you DON'T SEE. It's inside that steel matrix.
I am continually refining my heat treating process that will eventually wind up with a HIGH PERFORMANCE BLADE.
There are all kinds of makers out there that produce a whole bunch of different styles, and not one of them worth a hoot!
I'd rather learn how to make a few styles and make them WELL, rather than a bunch of styles and sacrifice performance for variety.
When someone sees one of my knives I want them to say, "Now there's a knife from Andersen Forge! Those things are tough!"
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.

Offline Graybeard

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2006, 09:52:14 AM »
Ah ha, so you're saying that just because to my untrained eye the pair for the guys going to AK and this one and the other one with the stag handle all "looked" the same to me they might not have been quite the same blade just similar in appearance? Gotcha.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Karl B. Andersen

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2006, 12:17:41 PM »
Actually, all of them ARE pretty similar!
Is every knife I make supposed to be different?
They are different in the handle configuration I gave them and the difference in "hardware".
Give me a week or so. It takes me 9 days just to forge and thermal cycle my knives before they are ready to make a knife out of!
I have some different stuff coming out for a knife show in Michigan, just for those folks who want to see variety!
(I guess I've gotta please them too!)
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.

Offline scherm

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2006, 07:19:00 PM »
I've known Karl for a few years and I watched his work evolve.  I would say he has found a style he really enjoys making, is pretty good at doing and they seem to be pretty popular with his customers  :wink: .   I think I would call this blade style his "standard" model.  

Knifemakers seem to have a favorite style that they tend to make more than others.   Take a 4" Drop Point Hunter for instance,  how many versions of that knife area available?  

Here's a link to some of Karl's other style work:

http://www.kbaknives.com/pages/739446/index.htm

Oh....and by the way....Really like the color choice on this one.  Makes it look wicked :twisted: .   Nice work! :grin:

Brent

Offline Graybeard

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2006, 08:38:43 AM »
Now that first one that popped up when I clicked that link is more to my own personal tastes.



I'm really fond of the laminated wood with the gray or pepper appearance that seems to be what it wears and the blade on it is the kind I generally gravitate to. It looks much like one I tested and reviewed a couple years ago from Sunrise River Custom Knives. Man I wish I hadn't let that one go back. I'm still kicking myself for it.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Karl B. Andersen

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2006, 02:21:37 PM »
Actually, the two knives in this thread have the EXACT same handle material! Cut out of the same block!
Black Canvas Micarta.
The one you just posted has been sand blasted to expose the canvas material, which is in many layers and impregnated with an acrylic polymer, to give it a sticky characteristic when wet!
I have one a lot like it I'm taking to a knife show in Michigan at the end of the month.
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.

Offline Tony

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2006, 02:42:41 PM »
I just wanted to say that I love the knife that you made.  If I did not know any better I might be inclined to think that Ed Fowler might be one of your influences as the knife in the picture looks alot like some his knives. However I really like this knife as I love Micarta handles. I was wondering what the blade length is on this paticular model, what type of edge do you put on ypor knives and does this knife have a full length tang? Also I take it you do your own heat treat and could you tell me the rockwell hardness of this knife. Finally what does a knife of this beauty run in price. Any information you can provide me with will be greatly appreciated and thank you for be a knife maker as we need more in the world as most factory knives have just become alot of junk.

Tony
Certified Glock Armorer

Offline Karl B. Andersen

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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2006, 03:29:14 PM »
Ed is deffinitely an influence!
I went out to Willow Bow last Summer and took his "Seminar of the High Performance Blade". Many of my knives reflect this.
This particular knife, as do many of the ones I make, is a Take-down model. It is a hidden tang. That pommel nut is threaded onto the tang. There are alignment pins and a few details that I might discuss with you, but it's just too involved to write down here!
I don't have a Rockwell tester, but can tell you that all knives from my shop are tested for edge flex, cutting capabilities, etc. before they are completed.
This one is overall 11".
5 3/4" blade.
With the hot bluing and take-down configuration this one would run $450.00.
I make a really nice wet-molded, hand stitched sheath for all my knives that will last a LIFETIME! with alittle execise of common sense on thepart of the owner.
Go see www.andersenforge.com for any other questions.
I hope I can help!
karl B. Andersen
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.

Offline Joel

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2006, 03:53:56 AM »
That is Ed Fowler's blade.  Not to mention that fighting knife guard.  You do use different handle materials though, besides that godawful sheep horn.  Makes my hand cramp to look at those.  I am curious why you are stuck on that one type blade though.  Actually, there are a lot of much better designs out there, not that yours won't work for the most part,...look at the knives of Loveless and Dozier and D'Holder for instance.  Among others.   I enjoy making a variety of knife styles, and last I heard from the folks who buy them, I'm pretty good at it.  However, that's where we take different roads.  Just out of curiosity also, why a take down knife in those sizes?  I can see that feature, to an extent, in a larger knife if I had to pack it into some remote area.  I mean, I admire the engineering, so to speak, but what's the logic behind them.  What happens if you lose that little wrench thing?  Or do you supply more than one per knife.

Offline Karl B. Andersen

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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2006, 04:45:00 PM »
That is Ed Fowler's blade. Not to mention that fighting knife guard. You do use different handle materials though, besides that godawful sheep horn. Makes my hand cramp to look at those. I am curious why you are stuck on that one type blade though. Actually, there are a lot of much better designs out there, not that yours won't work for the most part,...look at the knives of Loveless and Dozier and D'Holder for instance. Among others. I enjoy making a variety of knife styles, and last I heard from the folks who buy them, I'm pretty good at it. However, that's where we take different roads. Just out of curiosity also, why a take down knife in those sizes? I can see that feature, to an extent, in a larger knife if I had to pack it into some remote area. I mean, I admire the engineering, so to speak, but what's the logic behind them. What happens if you lose that little wrench thing? Or do you supply more than one per knife.


I'm debating on whether or not to even respond to your comments.
I don't understand their origin at all.
I don't know what you mean by "stuck on that one blade type".? You actually have no idea what's on my bench at this time. Two spear points, one large and one small, one small Bowie and one large Bowie, and one clip point hunter in Jerry Rados Damascus, in addition to a few of these Fowler style hunters. That's deffinitely not "one blade type."
You assume a lot, with knowing nothing about me, other than what I have posted here.
Better designs? Different, maybe. If you want to think "better", then go ahead! that's the freedom of knifemaking!
What a luxury it is to be able to make whatever you feel like making. I haven't the foggiest idea how one knifemaker can tell another what he should or shouldn't make.
Who tells you what you should make?
Have you ever noticed that you can spot a Dozier, or a Loveless or a Holder across the street? Talk about repeating a single style! Of course they make many different configurations, but each of them have styles they have popularized. Look at D'Alton's "My Knife" for cryin' outloud! He can't make enough of them. Are you going to tell him he should make more styles and not concentrate so much on one? Not me!
Look at Loveless' Dropped Point Hunter. My God, the man has made thousands of them! Send him an email and tell him he ought to spread himself out a little more!
Would you buy a high dollar gun that you could not take apart and clean? Not me.
Also, with stag, I don't ever need to worry about epoxy joints cracking or handle material expanding or shrinking. That take-down assembly takes care of that dilemma.  What does size have to do with it?
If you are after variety and versatility, have at it!
I strive to make the best serviceable blade I can, continue to learn to make it better, and provide my customers with a knife that I can stand behind for as long as I am able to make knives. That alone is a task in itself. I don't necessarily want to complicate it by trying to make a different knife every time I'm at the forge. That'sa a waste of time in my estimation.
If you truly decide to make the BEST knife that you can possibly make, one style alone will give you a lifetime of learning and pursuit.
The hole in that pommel nut was obviously drilled with a drill bit, right? If a customer lost it, a drill bit that size would work just fine until I sent him another "wrench".
Make as many different knives as you like!
I do!
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.

Offline Joel

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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2006, 05:11:57 PM »
Let's see.  The only knife style I've seen here, is your fowler one.  It's also the only one I've seen at those other forums that I go to where you show your knives. Doesn't mean that there aren't others I don't go to ,but I do hit the common ones...BF, KF, BB etc.  Therefore, since  that's all I've ever seen over the course of time, that's what I base my assesment one.  Actually, so did Bill(graybeard).  

As far as your takedown design goes, It used to be quite popular at one time especially with the europeans.  It was also built over here for a while. Most of the knives I've seen that had that takedown feature were made by the old Western Cutlery, which now belongs to  Camillus I think.  I sharpen knives for a lot of the good ol'boys around here and more than a few of both the european and the American ones have been brougt to me for sharpening and also to see if I couldn't "tighten them up" a bit.  They had belonged to Dad, or Grandpap or whoever. The handles were invarialbly stag, occasionally some sort of wood  and of course had shrunk over the years.  I'd add some spacers if I could.....sometimes I couldn't.  All of them.......ALL of them had worked loose over the years.  Might work better with micarta.

For someone who has no problem castigating other knifemaker's work, and I suspect a lot of what you say there is pure meanness, you DO take offense when the finger is pointed at you, huh.  I guess the old saying "judge not, lest you be judged"wan't in your upbringing.  Now you know how it feels.  Fun, huh.

Offline Karl B. Andersen

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2006, 05:58:06 PM »
Who was castigating other knifemaker's work?
Apparently you have no idea how my knives take-down.
There is no loosening up possible.
You're basing your opinion of me and my knifemaking on a few pictures!
Why are you pickin' on me?
Where are you headed with this?
Knifemaking is freedom.
How can you stand to judge others?
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.

Offline Karl B. Andersen

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2006, 06:00:00 PM »
What meanness?
Where?
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.

Offline Graybeard

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2006, 07:07:20 PM »
kbaknife you seem to have a real attitude and that don't fly around here. I ask a question and you jump down my throat even tho I am the site owner and now are after my moderator.

I suggest you read the terms of use for this site again.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Karl B. Andersen

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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2006, 01:06:39 AM »
I am in a complete mystery as to where you two gentlemen are coming from.
All I have done here is explain.
No "jumping" down ANYONE"S throat!?
Your Administrator was simply telling me all of my faults and my work's shortcomings, yet has no idea of my producation.
His first post was almost an unprovoked attack and I don't know why.
I've never said one word to him about what he shold do with his knife making or what types of knives he should make.
Maybe he should re-read the rules also.
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.

Offline Karl B. Andersen

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2006, 01:19:59 AM »
Please go back through this post and point out to me where I said the first thing rude or offensive to either one of you!
It's not there!
You guys talked to me about the repetitiveness of my work, with only seeing an handful of it, and I simply pointed out it's not the case.
Joel mentioned three world renowned knifemakers, who I admire to the utmost, whose work, I pointed out, can be recognized at a great distance simply BECAUSE of its style seen over and over again!
Now I ask, why am I being singled out.
This is like two against one and I've done nothing in the first place other than explain my work when I'm sort of wondering why I should be.
Knifemaking is freedom and a chance for all to grow.
I've committed no crime here I am guilty of.
Seems like appologies are in order all around.
This forum is a fantastic place, and one of my favorites because of its wide scope.
Joel mentiond numerous other forums, which are completely knife oriented by the way, and I've never seen any of this type of activity.
I know a good solution.
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.

Offline Karl B. Andersen

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« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2006, 02:05:01 AM »
I had to think about this while I drank my coffee this morning.
All I ask is that one of you two please point out to me where I was "mean"? or where did I "castigate" other knifemakers?
I criticized no one.
It hasn't happened.
Ain't a mean bone in my body.
Something has been severely misinterperated.
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.

Offline scherm

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2006, 06:34:39 AM »
Quote from: Graybeard
kbaknife you seem to have a real attitude and that don't fly around here. I ask a question and you jump down my throat even tho I am the site owner and now are after my moderator.

I suggest you read the terms of use for this site again.


As a third (or fourth) party observer I'm probably jumping into a hornet's nest.

Graybeard....No offense, but I took your first comment (the one where you capitalized ONLY and put the big red question mark at the end) as very sarcastic and this may have led to Karl's next comment.

Karl, No offense either but you do tend to get a little overexcited when explaining things on the internet

Offline scherm

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2006, 06:43:05 AM »
Just about the time you two seem to have calmed down,  along came Joel's post.   Which SEEMED to be very mean spirited also.    

Here's the "Term's of Use" You've all been skirting around Owner, Moderator, Poster and All......


Equality among members, at GBO we feel that all members are equal, and each and every one of you contribute in your own way to make GBO what it is. We also understand that each of our members have their own ideas, beliefs and opinions, and we respect that. We ask that every member of GBO always remember that we are all unique and we all have our own ideas, beliefs, and opinions and respect those of your fellow members as much as you would have them respect yours. Now if that is none and you feel as though you need not respect the opinions of your fellow members, I expect you will not be staying around here for very long.

Baiting Members, GBO has a zero tolerance policy for members who try to bait other members into violating the rules and "Terms of Use" of the GBO site. Those who bait other members while themselves trying to stay within the letter of the rules are in fact in "violation of the spirit of the rules". As such the member baiting another member is subject to the same actions by Moderators or Administrators as the baited member should the member then violate site rules in retaliation or in response to the baiting. This rule applies to all members of GBO regardless of membership status or rank.

One thing EVERYONE needs to remember....the internet is the wrong place to try to hold a good CONVERSATION to work something out



Just my $0.22 worth I'll Shut Up Now :wink:

Offline Graybeard

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Black Beauty!
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2006, 12:54:16 PM »
Quote
Do you make ONLY that one blade with various handles? It seems every image I've seen you show is the same blade but with a variety of different handles on them.  :?:


This was an innocent question asking for clarification. Every single photo posted to that point seemed to my untrained eyes exactly indentical except for handle material. I just wanted to know if it was merely a favorite or the only style made. That seemed innocent enough to me. I chose the red question mark as the ONLY emoticon we have that goes with a question. No other reason.


You followed up with this:

Quote
They are most certainly similar in profile, but you only get to see two dimensions.
Why should I make a different blade? Would this blade not do everything you could think of?
I have two Bowies coming off the forge this week that are slightly different, as well as two spear points.
How many different blade styles do you make?


At best defensive and the ending line to me was offensive. It should have been quite obvious I'm the head honcho here and the knife forum being as small a part of it as it is should have clued you I'm not a knife maker and in fact only drop by rarely.

Which I then explained in this follow up post:

Quote
Me? I don't make knives, I just provide this site for you folks to post on for free.  I was just wondering if it was your only one or only your favorite style as all of them looked so much the same blade wise.


Joel is Moderator NOT Admin here. Check the titles in by the names. There are only two admin's me and #2 son Matt which is also the site Webmaster.

Now perhaps Joel's comments were a bit harsh. I think he was picking up on the same thing I was which was an offensiveness in the replies. Maybe not, dunno, I'm not him and can't read his mind. But for sure your come back to him was not in keeping with site policy.

I had hoped the previous ill feelings that I saw rightly or wrongly on your part were behind us. Then it came back to the fore front strongly in that post and I felt it time to step in and end it once and for all for the good of the forum and to allow us to get back to what it's about. I hope we can now do just that.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Karl B. Andersen

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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2006, 01:32:28 PM »
Me, too.
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.

Offline Joel

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« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2006, 02:24:04 AM »
Me three.

Offline tucoblue

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« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2006, 11:16:40 PM »
Why would one need or want a take down knife? Help me understand this.

Thanks.

Offline Karl B. Andersen

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« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2006, 02:54:25 PM »
Mostly because these are simple carbon steel knives and are not stainless. Even the best of intentions with non-stainless blades can allow rust to occur in areas you can't get to. This was, you can protect the entire blade.
Also, my take-down procedure allows for a full one inch of threaded adjustment. This is particularly important with stag handle material, which I use a lot of.
I live in Illinois where it can be rather humid in July. If a customer from Arizona or New Mexico or anywhere in the high Desert buys it, it's almost a guarantee that handle material is going to shrink. If there were simple epoxy joints, they would crack/split.
ALso, the other direction is important. If I made the knife here in the Winter when it was dry and sold it somebody in Florida, that handle will want to expand! So, just loosen the nut up a little! It can go an entire inch.
Plus, if it's to be put away for an extended amount of time, just relax the pommel nut, put a good coat of mineral oil on the handle and put it away! You won't come back a year later and have your exotic wood, stag, or ivory handle in pieces! I've seen it.
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures -
right next to the mashed potatoes.