Author Topic: Oversized Chamber????  (Read 397 times)

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Offline kenscot

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Oversized Chamber????
« on: February 25, 2006, 03:15:35 AM »
What kind of case expansion should one expect on a fired bottle neck rifle case? Is a 1000th normal at the web? What make and model calipers do you guys use for measuring it

Offline Savage

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Oversized Chamber????
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2006, 09:32:09 AM »
.001 case expansion at the web is quite ok. Matter of fact, it's quite minimal. A good micrometer is used to measure this dimension. You can buy a micrometer for about $30 for a basic model, to about $70 for a digital.
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline PaulS

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Oversized Chamber????
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2006, 10:26:38 AM »
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
Alway check loads you find on the internet against manuals.
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads.

Offline kenscot

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Oversized Chamber????
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2006, 12:44:48 PM »
Paul ,
very informative thread but I guess what I am really looking for is a way to tell if I have an oversized chamber short of making a chamber cast?

Offline Castaway

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Oversized Chamber????
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2006, 02:06:55 PM »
Case head expansion is not the tool you need to use.  Different brass expands differently.  What are your symptoms that make you think your chamber is oversize?  As far as a casting goes, it's not that hard to do.

Offline Iowegan

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Oversized Chamber????
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2006, 06:19:54 AM »
Spent cases are an excellent indicator of chamber conditions. If you start with a new case and fire your load, the case will fire form to the chamber.

This is NOT used as a pressure indicator but rather a snap shot of the chamber itself. Keep in mind, the case head is solid except for the primer pocket and flash hole. It will not expand much even in an oversized chamber. Expanded head areas will show up when measuring brassl thickness at the point where the web meets the case wall.

The spent case will reveal all sorts of information. If you clean your case really well before firing, the brass will show any irregularities such as pits, rust, scratches, and machine marks. Further, if you use a RCBS CaseMaster  Gauging Tool, you can measure the thickness of the brass from the web to the mouth. Case run out can be measured and will  indicate an essentric chamber. The outside diameter of the brass can be measured in any location to indicate expansion. The most critical area is the point where the case wall meets the head (edge of the web). This can also be measured with the CaseMaster. Of course you need to compare the case with an unfired case to see where the differences are.

All cases will expand so don't get excited if you see a couple thousandths difference between a new case and a fired case. What you are primarily looking for is thin areas in the brass where the case has stretched. This is a very positive indicator of an expanded chamber.

See: http://www.rcbs.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=4&s2=3&s3=29

I have one of these tools and use it to troubleshoot rifles that don't group well. Often I find an essentric cut chamber where they don't line up with the bore perfect. I also use it to inspect cases after they have been fired a few times. The included probe will measure for thickness at the case wall/web where head seperation is likely. I also check runout on my reloads. Once in a while you will find a case that wasn't made right and will have runout no matter how good your dies and reloading techniques are.
GLB

Offline PaulS

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Oversized Chamber????
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2006, 07:28:59 PM »
Kenscot,

The chamber casting is the best way to measure the actual chamber size. You can take your firearm to a smith and have him touch the chamber with a finish reamer to see if it hits the walls but that would be a poor second to the casting. Is there a reason that you feel you have a chamber that is oversize? Cases splitting lengthwise? Cases that are hard to fit into a sizing die? There is a lot of leeway in chamber sizes but rarely do you find a chamber that is beyond those limits. If you necksize your cases then the size of your chamber - as long as it is not beyond limits - is not a bad thing. If you are concerned then take the gun to a smith and talk to him about it.

Quote from: kenscot
Paul ,
very informative thread but I guess what I am really looking for is a way to tell if I have an oversized chamber short of making a chamber cast?
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
Alway check loads you find on the internet against manuals.
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads.

Offline kenscot

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Oversized Chamber????
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2006, 03:56:43 PM »
An oversized chamber was suggested to me as one of the of the possible causes for the problems I am experiencing with one of my rifles.
In a nut shell I had worked up a load for a new rifle using virgin brass the load that I settle on was close to the listed max but not quite there. I was getting very nice accuracy with the load. When I loaded the cases for the second time I experience a hard bolt lift. I checked case length, COA length as well as other case measurements alll seem to be in spec. One thing I did notice was that I had to turn my sizing die down a full 1/4 turn down after the die made contact with the shell holder to insure easy chambering.I also tried reducing the load but got the same results. I have never experience this kind of problem before. So I was told that i could be a probllm wit the chamber