Author Topic: Bedding the barrel - how far forward? (Read 1466 times)

wsjones · « **on:** February 23, 2006, 06:45:35 AM »

How far forward from the hinge piece should the barrel be bedded? My interpretation of the FAQ link was 1/2" but I wasn't real clear on it. My original intent was to steel bed the barrel from the hinge piece to the barrel stud. Too much?

What about the inletting for the barrel stud and support thingy? Should that also be bedded? The forend I've got has a much larger inletted area than the factory forend (and barrel stud support thingy; please somebody tell me what that's really called).

Thanks in advance. -WSJ

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:54:40 AM »

Mac11700 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2006, 07:19:53 AM »

I haven't done any steel bedding on my forearms..but I did use some RTV gasket silicon..it works great..it's easy to clean up from the wood or barrels..and you can remove it fairly easy as well..best of all it works great..

Mac

Lost Okie · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2006, 12:28:20 PM »

I bedded the first inch (1) of the forearm on my .223 bull. Also have the rubber O ring in place. Shooting 1/2" at 100 yrds.

dgii · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2006, 02:51:25 PM »

Mac11700, Which type rtv gasket silicon do you use? Do you tape or coat the barrel with something to make it release the rtv? I like the idea, should allow the barrel to heat up without changing the pressure too much.
Dale

Mac11700 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2006, 04:15:56 PM »

I'll post here what I gave coop2564..

Quote

I opened the barrel channel 1/16" completely around the barrel..I used a 1" oak wood dowel and several grits of sandpaper. I also sanded the forearm spacer as well taking care not to remove too much from the sides as to weaken it's support of the barrel at that location. I used Brownells release agent all over the barrel and reciever( I can get a little sloppy:oops: ) and also used a q-tip and saturated the barrel stud threads prior to re-assembling it.I used electricians tape on the forearm everywhere I didn't want the silcon to dry and stick to,and I also coated it with the release agent.I used modeling clay on the sides of the barrel stud,pushing it into the openings all around it..the spot welds will allow the caulking to flow underneath it and into the threads if you don't.I used a 1/4" wide bead of the RTV in front and behind up to the tape and I had removed @ 1/16" inside the cutout of the forearm in the bottom of the cutout before to ensure I would have good bedding when I used regular bedding material..so I dug all of that out and with a dremal tool...If you use their Blue release agent..and follow the directions..(2 complete coats with it drying completely between them..) you won't have to worry about anything sticking permenatly to it...it's real good stuff. just before re-assembling..I used a cut off q-tip saturated with release agent..and coat the bottom half of the bolt hole thru the forearm..you'll want some going into it to make a perfect fit..but not all of it..then stick the q-tip in the barrel stud of the barrel with some release agent on it..and re-assemble.Pull out the q-tip..coat the bolt threads with it..and re-assemble tightening down to where you want it..I have 1/16" complete clearence on mine..and you can see the RTV on the sides of it looking down along the barrel..since the forearm should have tape up over the sides and down the outside some..cleanup will be easy..I used another q-tip and wiped the barrel and stock at the same time and evened it up..let it sit for 24 hours at above 70 degree,s with out peeking at it..and unscrew the bolts and pull evenly on the muzzle end of the forearm downward..and upward on the barrel..if stuck hard..insert a thin blade between the barrel and forearm and nudge it..it will come off fine...Oh...make sure the tape is stuck down good before applying the release agent to it..it will help make a cleaner job of the lines like mine..I made a rectangle with the tape and it was even...clean up is real easy afterwards..I scrapped a little off with my finger nails and cleaned the barrel with rubbing alcohol..

Hope that helps

Mac

Mac11700 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2006, 06:29:06 PM »

As I'm typing this..I'm doing my 25-06 barrel..The only difference this time..is that I'm using some Scotch blue masking tape..2" wide..it doesn't take as many pieces of electricians tape to do this..Brownells says to let the first thin coat set up and dry good..then go back over it with a 2nd coat..I'm in between coats right now..

Ok..2nd coat is done..here's what it looks like set up now it's time for the RTV in the forearm......

If you look around the barrel lug..you'll see some red stuf...this is modeling clay I used to fill the seams all the way around the top of the barrel lug..

The lug is spot welded on..so..you want to fill this space with something to keep the caulk out of it..

The caulk is in..and it's all snugged up...

and now I just have to wait 24 hours till it's dry...I'll show you all how it turns out tommorrow..

Mac

Cookiemann · « **Reply #7 on:** February 26, 2006, 12:30:46 AM »

I have 1 question. Is there a small gap between the barrel and the forearm when you are all finished? Is the bedded silicone the only part that is actually touching the barrel, until it heats up from shooting?

Mac11700 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 26, 2006, 05:34:42 AM »

Yes..I have a very small gap on this forearm...less than on my previous one.

Mac

coop2564 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 26, 2006, 05:06:53 PM »

Bedded barrel sat with above procedure. Shot today, overall I would say it helped the gun. 308 standard barrel with camo lam. I have seven different boxes of shells, before I had one brand fed NBT 150 gr that would give me a 1'' group, but all others were 2.5'' or worse. Now all seven boxes give me about a 1.5''-2'' group but I cant get that 1'' group with the NBT anymore. Some brands would vert string, some horz string and two were perfect clover shaped the 150 failsafe and 150 fed nos solid base boatail. The FS 1.5'' the Solid BBT 1.75''. The NBT now is about 2''. Shot each brand at least 2 groups some 3. The FS was a perfect clover shape each time, just wish it was a little tighter. The gun was more accurate when I had the syn stock and fluted varmit forend on it but it sure looks better with the camo wood. 1.5'' should cover most my hunting needs. But after seeing it do better with the syn, its hard to settle for looks, after all they dont kill. Kinda undecided about the wood. But thanks for the info. :-)

Mac11700 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 26, 2006, 06:48:09 PM »

Coop:

Have you lapped the barrel ?..This can help break in new barrels quite a bit..There is never any gaurentee..any of these trick will help 100% of the time..but as you have found..it will help the consistancy of your shots..and getting moa groups with everyload isn't always likely.What other loads have you tried..?..The Winchester 150 grain Power Points have worked pretty good for a few folks..also..I don't know if you have tried any of the Winchester Supreme ammo..it has always done well for me..just shoot it from a pefectly clean barrel first..and then clean good afterwards..

Well..I pulled the forearm off..and removed the tape...here's how she looks..

It isn't as thick as the last one I did..I wanted to try and see how much difference there will be between the 2 thickness..the top one was sub-moa with the Winchester 115grain SBT..so..we will see how this thickness does wiith them..if it starts stringing them..we will remove more wood and add more RTV...

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** February 26, 2006, 06:58:12 PM »

That's the beauty of using RTV, if it works, it should work permanently, but if it doesn't it's not hard to remove to try something else!! :wink:

Tim

coop2564 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 27, 2006, 05:13:03 AM »

Mac,
I've tried win 150 gr power points they stringed horz from LT to RT but a measured group of 1.75'' rem coreloft stringed vert from bottom to top 2.25'', horndany LT mag was a dia string LT to RT 2'' this one before was 4'' at best. Win silvertips nice clover but 2.25''. fed prem NBT 2'' had been the best shooter before bed job. Fed prem solid base BT nice 1.75'', Win failsafe 1.5'' best now good clover group. The 1st 2 shots in most groups were moa but the3rd jumped. For deer hunting 1 or 2 shots is going to get the job done 99% of the time, so I'm picking bones I guess. But there's no denying it made it a better shooter across the board.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 27, 2006, 05:39:08 AM »

Coop:

I don't know if you know this about our little Handi rifles..but from what you are saying it doing is what it sounds like whats happenning to me.The trigger has to be pulled all the way to the rear when you fire..not just enough for the hammer to fall....if not....then the transfer bar will interfer with it..and from your discription..it certainly sounds like a classic case of it....Try making a consious effort to pull all the way thru with your trigger till it bottoms out..it does take some getting used to..but once you do..it will come naturally..

Mac

coop2564 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 27, 2006, 06:27:46 AM »

I'm going to shoot again this eveing. Got to get some more shells. I'll try that today, also it was a little windy yesterday, calmer today.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 27, 2006, 08:18:02 AM »

Keep us posted :agree:

Mac

coop2564 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 28, 2006, 11:14:17 AM »

Thanks Mac for the trigger tip that got me to MOA with 2 loads, the failsafe 150gr .950'' and Hornady custom 150gr Interbond .877'' which I bought yesterday. The ballistic silvertips went from 2'' to a measured 1.125. But making sure I followed through with my trigger pull definitly tightened each group up. Didn't try all the brands again was happy with the 1st 3. Sighted in for the interbond. You and Tim do a great Job helping us out here! As does a lot of others. Thanks again!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 28, 2006, 10:35:28 PM »

:-D :-D Fantastic :-D :-D

Glad you have it coming together...

A point to remember about the Winchester Supreme's Silver ballistic tips..They do much better from a perfectly clean barrel..and then it takes about 5 of them to settle down..the lubalox is good stuff..but it can throw off plain jacketed ammo if you don't scrub it all out before shooting for groups..and never never try any of the Barnes bullets right after shooting the black bullets... :shock: :shock: :shock: ..It took me 2 hours to scrub out all the black and blue from the bore..and nothing would group till I did..

Good Luck

Mac

coop2564 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 01, 2006, 04:46:34 AM »

Well there you go, taught me something else. I've been jumping from 1 brand to the next, I noticed I was having to clean the barrel a lot to keep good groups, hadn't even thought about it being the bullet coatings, just thought the barrel hadn't broke in good yet. Thanks again. :lol:

Mac11700 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 01, 2006, 06:04:10 AM »

Coop:

It won't be so bad,once your barrel is broken in and out of it's "new" state. This is one of the main reason a-lot of us happed lap the bore with Flitz or JB Bore Bright or a simalar compound.It speeds up this process considerably quicker.Some folks have to shoot their Handis 300-500 rounds before it is consistant..When I do my barrels..it usually is within 50-100 rounds.I usually spend 3-5 hours prepping mine before I take the first shot from a new barrel.

When I am evaluating different brands of ammo..I'll clean the bore completely with 2 different products.I use Barnes CR-10..and one of the foaming bore cleaners.I have found that you a better idea of how well a paticular load will shoot for you. Now..every barrel is different..some shoot better clean..and some shoot better fouled some..but all usually work better when cleaned and then shot with the ammo your evaluating..not going off the fouling from several different brands..

There is a wealth of information up in the FAQ's and Help sticky at the top of the page..it's a good place to look thru and see if there is some information you can use there too

Good Luck :toast:

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** March 01, 2006, 06:15:46 AM »

A word of warning on using RTV silicone for bedding material...

Later formulations of Silicone, usually labeled as "Ultra", use anhydrous Isopropyl alcohol instead of the vinegar smelling older formula.

DO NOT USE Silicone that smells of vinegar because it is corrosive and essentially will remain corrosive, essentially forever.