ss109 data

[simplicity]

Anyone know what the powdcer used for the 62 grain ss109 round the military uses? I just wanted to know what the powder was and the weight of the charge? Another question is  I know the operating pressure of the 5.56 nato everything I've read says the 5.56 pressure is higher then a normal 223 I was just wondering what the limit was?

  What I'm trying to do is get the same velocity with the same weight bullet in a handload. I.E. 62 grain bullet at 3100fps.
 
   The gun I'm useing is a bushmaster a2 20" heavy target.

   If any one knows this info. I'd love to hear it.

[CyberSniper]

This may answer some of your questions.

http://www.ak-47.net/ammo/ss109.txt

Paramilitary 5.56mm ammunition should not be fired in commercial
rifles with chambers reamed to SAAMI specifications. The SAAMI chamber used in sporting firearms has a smaller diameter bullet seat, a shorter throat and less free bore than military chambers. Chamber pressures can rise dramatically when military ammunition is fired in them.

SAAMI specifications for commercial .223 ammunition specify an average
chamber pressure of 52,000 CUP. When military ammunition is fired in the
SAAMI chamber, pressures may rise to 55,000 or 60,000 CUP!

     U.S. manufactured paramilitary ammunition intended for civilian
consumption is purposely loaded down to SAAMI pressure levels and bullets
are often seated deeper to accommodate the SAAMI chamber. Ammunition
certified to meet Mil-C-9963F (the military specification for M193 Ball) is
only available to U.S. government agencies and private security firms under
contract to provide security for U.S. government installations.

[CyberSniper]

More Info...
Lyman #48 Manual shows loads for a 63 grain Sierra in the
velocity range desired. BUT, this data may well be different if
you are loading actual SS-109 / M-855 bullets.

AA2230, H-335, AA2460,Winchester 748, Varget, and Reloader 15
all seem to be able to reach 3,100 fps or more in a 24 inch test barrel.

Alas, they didn't use a 20 inch barrel to clock those loads though.
So, I guess we still don't have solid data on this, just a ballpark
idea.

[Lone Star]

Trying to duplicate the powder and charge used in commercial or military cartridges is impossible.  Why?  Because the powders used are simply not the same as those offered to handloaders.  Their lots differ in burning rate much more than with commercial powders, and the loading companies custom-tune the loads with each powder lot to match the cartridge design specs.  

If anyone tells you the exact powder and charge used in SS109 ammo, he is sorely mistaken, do not listen to him, run away quickly.   :-D

[S.S.]

I could not count how many rounds of U.S.
Military 5.56 I have fired in my Mini-14.
I am talking the same stuff that is issued
currently to our troops in Iraq. I can find no signs of any high pressure either. When Ruger first came out with the Mini-14 the rumor
went around about them not being safe with Military Ammo
and I am not honestly sure where it started. Bill Ruger joked about it in several magazine articles at the time. He said it was a bunch of BS.
I too think it was a bunch of BS except in one rifle, The Handi-Rifle
By H&R will have difficulty ejecting spent military 5.56 cases.

[Lone Star]

For those who think it is all BS, check out the facts.  (Unfortunately, Bill Ruger was not the faultless fountain of firearm fact.)  

http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html

[S.S.]

I have checked the facts and the only differences I have found
was in one lot of AMMO only. The brass was a fraction thicker at he case mouth.  I will fire 5.56 Nato ammo from anywhere in the world
in my Mini-14 with no fears. The whole reason for Standardization
among Nato forces was to be able to use supplies made in any Nato Country. This includes ammo. The U.S. Ammo is no different than ammo made in other Nato countries. It is loaded to NATO standard.

[Lone Star]

I suggest you actually read the links provided in detail in the above posts.  Perhaps your Ruger likey has a NATO chamber, not a SAAMI chamber - or your ammop is not true NATO-spec ammo (does it even have the NATO cross and circle headstamp?).  What works in your Mini-14 may be dangerous in an M70 or M700 or an M7600 or an XP-100.  

Why in the world would you generalize about a safety issue like this, when numerous experts have demonstrated the potential hazzards?  You have experience with a single firearm, they (SAAMI and the others) have tested many different weapons.   Safety is nothing to be taken lightly - an idea  that GB and this community clearly support.  

[S.S.]

Yes to the Nato headstamp question, The ammo has it. Lake city,
and Radway Green are the two that I use the most.
The reason I have made the above statement was that I have never found the variations mentioned. And this is with a multitude
of different weapons. I have evaluated firearms and ammunition
for 4 different police agencies this includes Cerosafe chamber casts
and measurement of fired and unfired cases. I have simply never found
the problem that others have. One rifle, An H&R single shot would jam on
firing Mil-Spec Ammo. This I attributed to poor machine work and a roughly finished chamber.  I must admit though that I did not
evaluate any handguns so chambered. So I have to concede that there
could be some hazzard in firing Mil-spec Ammo in a handgun. As far as the articles on the other websites, I did read it and it is the same stuff that has been going around for the last 15 years or so, nothing really new there. I would urge anyone reading this to do the experimentation for themselves, Ammo testing in any given firearm irregardless of caliber is only prudent. If during this testing, you find a firearm that is chambered
with different dimensions (not freebore, many are different), I will help you yell the word that it could be unsafe to fire Mil-Spec ammo in that weapon.

[NYH1]

There is also a difference between NATO ammo made by different countries as far as velocities go. The ammo that the United States uses is about as hot as you're going to find. The British actually load some of their ammo down a bit so it functions reliable in some of the weapons where the hotter ammo won't. It's all still NATO-spec ammo. Here's a good link

[dscp]

HOWDY !   I PREFER NOT TO GET INTO THE CURRENT EXCHANGE OF COMMENTS...HOWEVER THE FUNCTION OF HANDLOADED AMMUNITION IN A MILITARY RIFLE CAN BE JUDGED BY THAT WEAPONDS ABILITY TO FUNCTION (CYCLE) PROPERLY. THIS IS NOT OF MY OWN OBSERVATION BUT READ MANY YEARS AGO AND SEAMS WELL TO ME.
     M1 GRAND, M-14 , M-16 ETC. FROM A SINGLE FIRING POSITION FIRE SOME MIL SURPLUS AMMO. THE EMPTY HULLS SHOULD LUMP INTO ONE GENERAL AREA.     NOW USING YOUR
 HANDLOADS FIRE A SIMILAR GROUP , IF THE HULLS ACCUMULATE IN A TOTALLY DIFFERENT AREA  THEN YOU NEED TO ADJUST YOUR POWDER/POWDER CHARGE UNTIL YOUR OWN LOADS THROUGH YOUR HULLS IN A SIMILAR FASHION . THIS SHOULD INDICATE THE PRESSURE IS APPROXIMATELY THE SAME.  MANY OF US LACK PROP[ER INSTRUMENTATION TO VERIFY CHAMBER PRESSURE .
     NOW### I HAVE A QUESTION TO QUERRY ? IF ALL OF THE ACCUSATIONS ABOUT MIL-SPEC AND COMMERCIAL AMMO IS TRUE.........WHAT ABOUT MY HANDLOADS USING G.I.BRASS.........AND SINCE THERE ARE AS MANY AS THREE RELOADING  DIE SETS IN THE SAME CALIBRE . DO THESE MAKE AN IMPORTANT DIFFERANCE ?     DO THESE DIFFERANCES EXCIST IN OTHER THAN 5.56 , ...308...30-06...ETC...??
HAPPY TO CONTRIBUTE WHAT I CAN , BUT NO   ONE   HAS ALL THE ANSWERS !
dscp

[dscp]

HOWDY !   I PREFER NOT TO GET INTO THE CURRENT EXCHANGE OF COMMENTS...HOWEVER THE FUNCTION OF HANDLOADED AMMUNITION IN A MILITARY RIFLE CAN BE JUDGED BY THAT WEAPONDS ABILITY TO FUNCTION (CYCLE) PROPERLY. THIS IS NOT OF MY OWN OBSERVATION BUT READ MANY YEARS AGO AND SEAMS WELL TO ME.
     M1 GRAND, M-14 , M-16 ETC. FROM A SINGLE FIRING POSITION FIRE SOME MIL SURPLUS AMMO. THE EMPTY HULLS SHOULD LUMP INTO ONE GENERAL AREA.     NOW USING YOUR
 HANDLOADS FIRE A SIMILAR GROUP , IF THE HULLS ACCUMULATE IN A TOTALLY DIFFERENT AREA  THEN YOU NEED TO ADJUST YOUR POWDER/POWDER CHARGE UNTIL YOUR OWN LOADS THROUGH YOUR HULLS IN A SIMILAR FASHION . THIS SHOULD INDICATE THE PRESSURE IS APPROXIMATELY THE SAME.  MANY OF US LACK PROP[ER INSTRUMENTATION TO VERIFY CHAMBER PRESSURE .
     NOW### I HAVE A QUESTION TO QUERRY ? IF ALL OF THE ACCUSATIONS ABOUT MIL-SPEC AND COMMERCIAL AMMO IS TRUE.........WHAT ABOUT MY HANDLOADS USING G.I.BRASS.........AND SINCE THERE ARE AS MANY AS THREE RELOADING  DIE SETS IN THE SAME CALIBRE . DO THESE MAKE AN IMPORTANT DIFFERANCE ?     DO THESE DIFFERANCES EXCIST IN OTHER THAN 5.56 , ...308...30-06...ETC...??
HAPPY TO CONTRIBUTE WHAT I CAN , BUT NO   ONE   HAS ALL THE ANSWERS !
dscp