Speak Spanish?

[rockbilly]

:roll: A friend sent this to me.  After reading it, I think this is one of the best arguments for one language in the USA.  When you think of all the other cultures that have successfully assimilated into the American way of life it makes you wonder who is pushing for adapting Spanish as a second language, and who is pushing to force school systems to adapt a program to teach in Spanish.  The letter a "letter to the editor" McAllen, Tx newspaper.

LETTERS
March 10,2006
The Monitor

Wake up Rio Grande Valley

To the editor:

"Bilingual Education in Question," a headline in The Monitor on Feb. 10, requires some comment because I have been there.

Again, the fact that I have been a resident of the Valley for 21 years, property owner, taxpayer. As I write this, I am three months and 23 days in the year of my life, which means I am a 90-year "know it all."

I grew up in a community of New York Mills, Minn., which was 80 percent Finnish when I started first grade in 1923. What would have happened if the Finns would have insisted that their language be also used in the schools besides English? Or the Dutch settlers to the north, or the German and Polish to the west, where they lived in such numbers that they constructed beautiful and large churches? What if the Norwegians to the south would have insisted that their language also be used in the school systems?

What if all of the ethnic groups who settled in the United States had insisted that it was necessary their language be preserved by having it used in their local school systems?

This was not the case, as all of the nationalities came to the United States with the purpose of being Americanized. It took about three generations to do away with the "old country" languages, to the betterment of their localities and the Untied States in general. These communities all prosper without the competition of a second language, and in all respects are ahead of the Valley.

I still speak the Finnish language, can read and write it with a little difficulty, as I donÂ’t use it too often. I have been to Finland four times and my speaking is still so good the natives want to know when I left Finland.

What is it with the Hispanics who have to have their own chamber of commerce? Also, other organizations carrying the Hispanic name — Latin officials, Bar Association, Law Students, MBA, Latin American Citizens, School Boards, Municipal Associations., College Boards, American Caucus, Caucus in Congress, Professional, Latin Grammy’s. Maybe I have missed a few.

Do Hispanics have such low esteem that they canÂ’t belong to the regular organizations that represent these activities? I think they should try and they might be surprised in how well they do.

Students who cannot speak English should be put in a special class for a year, which is long enough for them to learn English, and bilingual teachers would not be required. Advancing these students when they still have problems with the English language handicaps them and disturbs the education of the other students in the class.

Wake up, Valley. One language, and you will make progress that will surprise you.

Harley Karvonen,

[Daks]

I think the worry about losing English as the dominant language is a way of worrying about immigrants in general and being displaced as the majority culture.

This same worry has shown up when we've received waves of immigrants from Ireland, from Italy, from Slavic countries. Now, this worry has shown up with the influx of Spanish speakers.

If it is truly a wave that will displace the majority of English speakers and replace them with Spanish speakers, then no insistence on English will stop the process. In that case, it is going to happen no matter what so why worry about something that is inevitable?

If it isn't as big a deal as all that and if the influx of Spanish speakers are not going to displace the English speakers, then there isn't much to worry about either.

Any way you look at this, this is a non-issue. It is either inevitable or no big deal. Folks that worry about this issue are really, in my view, just expressing their fear of change.

[rockbilly]

Daks. I am too far along in life to really be concerned with the issue, but still concerned about the deteration of this great country as a result of the decay associated with the heavy influx of immigrats.  The point of Mr Korvanen's letter is, this change was never expected/offered to any other group of immigrants.  I look at the Viet Nam boat people as an excellent example of what can be accomplished by blending into our society.  Many of them spoke no english, yet through hard work, and in just a few years , many of them were/are at the top of their classes in schools at all levels.  

They were willing to mix into the society and blend to better themselves. With most of the Spanish speaking people this is not true, they want to maintain the same style of life the lived in their home country. They group togeather to maintain the life style they lived in their home country.  

If that style of life was so great, why did they leave?  Why should my tax dollars go to support them, especially if they are illegal immigrants?  I don't think this is anything to get excited about, but there should be concern unless you just want to set back and see this country go to hell in a hand basket. :cry:

[Daks]

People said much the same thing, about this country going to hell in a handbasket, during each of the other waves of immigrants we've absorbed.

Didn't happen. I doubt it will happen now. Things will change, certainly, but change is not always bad.

The observation that people who are Spanish speakers are somehow different because they do not want to assimilate is also not accurate. My relatives came in through NYC and settled nearby other immigrants who spoke the same language and had the same culture. Whole sections of cities were described as being the "Slovak ward" or the "Irish ward". Spanish speakers aren't bringing any new attitudes in this regard.

And by the second generation, the kids all spoke English and wanted to make money. They understood that to make money, they HAD to speak English. I'm pretty sure there aren't many second-generation Spanish speakers who aren't bilingual and fluent in both languages. So what you are seeing is really just a first generation phenomenon. By the second generation, in order to get out of the menial jobs and make some real money, people are speaking English and climbing the social ladder.

Just like they've done in this country with EVERY wave of immigration.

Relax. Things will be different, but nothing stays the same in this world. Change is inevitable but change is not always change for the worse.

[Brett]

And by the second generation, the kids all spoke English and wanted to make money. They understood that to make money, they HAD to speak English. I'm pretty sure there aren't many second-generation Spanish speakers who aren't bilingual and fluent in both languages. So what you are seeing is really just a first generation phenomenon. By the second generation, in order to get out of the menial jobs and make some real money, people are speaking English and climbing the social ladder.

Just like they've done in this country with EVERY wave of immigration.

Relax. Things will be different, but nothing stays the same in this world. Change is inevitable but change is not always change for the worse.

Not so sure about that Daks.  Yes, the previous waves of immigrants HAD to learn to speak English in order to move up the social/economical ladder in the past.  That was because this country was not bending over backward to make everything from road signs, package labels and public education bilingual.  In other words they had little choice but to learn English.  Today, especially in major metropolitan areas of the country, it is relatively easy to get by without knowing English because everything from a public education to the TV guide can be easily had in Spanish.  The Slovaks, Norwegians, Germans, etc. of the past did not have these things available to them.  Road signs were not printed in both English and German, you could not pick up a copy of the TV guide printed in Polish or Slovakian at the local grocery store and the signs and product labels in the grocery store were not printed in English and Chinese.  School teachers were not conducting class in both English and Italian in the public schools. The past waves of foreign immigrants had little choice but to learn English unlike the Spanish speaking immigrants of today.

It is true that change is inevitable and true that it is not always a bad thing, but it is not always a good thing either.  Only time will tell.

[victorcharlie]

I can tell you that the father of the Constitution was James Madison.   The Constitution was a hard sell to the colonies so Madison with the help of Alexander Hamilton wrote a series of 85 papers called the Federalist Papers that explained the principles of why the constitution and a Republican form of government would work.  The following is from the second Federalist Paper:

With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people--a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general liberty and independence.

This country and this people seem to have been made for each other, and it appears as if it was the design of Providence, that an inheritance so proper and convenient for a band of brethren, united to each other by the strongest ties, should never be split into a number of unsocial, jealous, and alien sovereignties.

Madison thought that one of the reasons the Constitution would work is the common bonds described above.  Now ask yourself what's changed?

[Savage .250]

BRETT:   :agree:  :agree:

  I live in central Fla and have strong feelings about the subject so i agree with your comments.  Not that you need my affirmation.

[Daks]

The acid test is whether second generation folks are still unilingual Spanish. I doubt it very sincerely. To get ahead in this country, English is needed. I'm guessing that the sheer numbers are making people think Spanish is being clung to but I'm willing to bet any money that by the second generation, English is the language of choice. Just like it is all over the world. The language of business everywhere is English.

My grandparents never spoke a word of English. We all turned out OK.

[Daks]

BTW, this debate has been going on since the late 1700's. Back then, people who spoke English objected to people speaking German. Throughout our history, there has been an xenophobic response to people who don't speak English. You can read about it at http://www.watzmann.net/scg/german-by-one-vote.html

Just as a sidenote, do you know the language the first public printing of the Declaration of Independence?

German.

As Ecclesiastes famously said, there is nothing new under the sun.

[Daks]

duplicate

[powderman]

Immigrants should have a set amount of time to learn, and SPEAK ENGLISH, or GO HOME. We speak English here, it's our country, not theirs. If they want to acclimate, adopt our lifestyles, learn, and speak ENGLISH, I say thats wonderful. Many, if not most, want nothing to do with being Americans. They want to set up their own little tijuqanas and go yabba dabba doo all day. I saw a man scold his daughter for speaking perfect english to her friend. She said, but papa, I like english. He scolded her some more. Her head dropped as she told her American friend that her papa forbid her to speak english and she couldn't talk to her anymore. I say, learn it SPEAK it, or GET OUT. POWDERMAN.  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x

[powderman]

Immigrants should have a set amount of time to learn, and SPEAK ENGLISH, or GO HOME. We speak English here, it's our country, not theirs. If they want to acclimate, adopt our lifestyles, learn, and speak ENGLISH, I say thats wonderful. Many, if not most, want nothing to do with being Americans. They want to set up their own little tijuqanas and go yabba dabba doo all day. I saw a man scold his daughter for speaking perfect english to her friend. She said, but papa, I like english. He scolded her some more. Her head dropped as she told her American friend that her papa forbid her to speak english and she couldn't talk to her anymore. I say, learn it SPEAK it, or GET OUT. POWDERMAN.  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x

[rockbilly]

:roll: As I said, I am in the autum of my life, I doubt that any serious changes will take oalce ion my lifetime, but I firmly believe, left unchecked, there will be problems in the future.  Some areas are already converting their shools to 100% spanish speaking.  After completion, how will these students blend in with other members of society?

With the number of anchor babies, and illegals that are now on the voting roles, this country is "headed down hill like a snow ball heqaded for hell."  Current mexican government officals have already stated they will take over America with out ever firing a shot.  This will be accomplished at the ballot box.  Very few of the "legal" mexicans are opposed to immigration of any type, legal or illegal.  As the numbers increase, state by state their power at the ballot box will grow even stonger.  They arfe the majority in Arizona how, close in New Mexico and Califorina, and it is estimated they will be in the majority in Texas within the next few years.  Florida is not far behind, as Utah and Nevada.  New York has a very hig population of spanish speaking people too.

Keep your head in the sand, and your state may be next.  We need to hammer our law makers now to stop the illegal immigration, eliminate the anchor baby policy and make an attempt to stop the cancer that is slowly but surely destroying this country...... :cry:

[Daks]

Probably the same things were said by the Indians when they saw those danged Pilgrims land. "Learn to speak Narragansett or go home, you interlopers!"

 :-D

[victorcharlie]

I'm not opposed to immigration, but am opposed to illegal immigration.  My wife was recently involved in a car accident.  It was not her fault, but the driver of the other car was an illegal from Guatemala.  He had 5 different aliases, no driverÂ’s license, and no auto insurance.  The sad part is that when the cops arrived, they let him go and told my wife they didn't want to feed him while he was in jail as it would cost the county money.  The cops let him get in his car and drive off, a menace to society.  Guess who got the bill for repair?  Guess whose insurance premiums went up because of it?  ItÂ’s the rich executives of companies like Tyson and Wal-Mart who benefit by the cheap cost of labor and the profit that comes from it while society pays the bill.

The illegal immigrants around here live in a completely different society outside the law.  They do about anything they want to and unless an illegal commits a serious crime are, for the most part, immune from justice.  Most live huddled together to reduce expenses, and seldom maintain the property which becomes an eye sore and reduces property value.  A few residents complain of the stench of stale urine an note that many refuse to use the toilet and relieve themselves in the yard.   A large portion of the money they earn is sent back to their country to support their family, thus, not spent in the community they live in.

I am also opposed to giving any illegal any form of legitimacy as this would encourage more illegal immigration by rewarding those that have already migrated north of the border out side of US immigration law.

Some of you know by my previous posts that I lived and worked in China.  While there I met many who wanted to practice their English and dreamed of coming to America.  1st, they needed $50,000 U.S. dollars.  That's a lot of money to a person who make $20 to $30 a month.  They needed approval from their government to leave and an entry visa into the US.  They needed a sponsor already a citizen.  The legal immigrant spends hours standing in lines and filling out forms.  Most wait years for approval and many never get approved.

How can we possibly, in good conscience, allow those who circumvent the process to be legitimized by this country and then expect any foreign national to enter legitimately?  Are we to reward illegal acts and slight those who choose to do things the correct way?  I say we should demand that the process already in place be enforced.  Change the process if we must but do not allow those who skip the queue and jump the line to be place above those who stand patiently waiting, and demonstrate by doing so that they are willing to live in an ordered society.