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Offline slider

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Hard hand ejection ?
« on: March 18, 2006, 03:09:01 PM »
Having trouble with my ar.  I'm getting hard hand ejection from my loads, on the 2nd loading.I am not new to reloading, but this one has me
stumped!! I'm using rcbs small base 223 dies, trimming to 1.750. I've adjusted the die up and down just to see if it make's any difference, but it has not. Now these loads are funtioning fine and showing no pressure signs upon firing, the problem is they are extremly hard to hand eject if you don't fire them. Any thoughts or ideas greatly appreciated!!
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Offline jhalcott

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Hard hand ejection ?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2006, 03:30:27 PM »
slider .how long are the cases?How long are the reloads overall? Sounds like they might be sticking in the throat.  I ordered a box of .224 bullets once and got a box of .228 by accident.I doubt that's your problem but it IS one more thing to check!
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Offline jimann

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223
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2006, 04:15:22 PM »
Hi
If you crimp too hard, you can get some weird buckles. At the crimp and on the side, where the shoulder meets the side of the case, but this usually chamber hard.
Good luck
jim
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Offline slider

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Hard hand ejection ?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2006, 04:45:28 PM »
actually  I forgot to mention that an empty sized case by itself will hard extract!!!   No bullet, no crimp, will still hard eject!!     Thanks for quick response.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Hard hand ejection ?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2006, 11:22:29 PM »
look at your brass for scratches your chamber may be dammaged but my first guess is that your brass needs trimming or you have a tight throat that is going to need you to turn down the outsides of the neck of your brass.
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Offline qajaq59

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Try trimming
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2006, 11:59:50 PM »
Mic the cases after you resize them and see if they are substantially different then they are out of the box or in the book. It sounds like your dies are not returning them to the size they should be. Are those brand new dies, or were they ok and suddenly changed?
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Offline slider

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Hard hand ejection ?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2006, 03:41:35 AM »
No visable marks on necks. I bought the dies new, and have had the problem for a while. The thing I don't get is, the case is fireformed upon firing and a fired case while hand eject with no problem. Now I understand the case will stretch and when I trim them back to specs this should fix the length. Now considering the case is fireformed to the chamber, how can a die make the shell larger, other than length, than it was before sizing?   Should I consider trimming shorter?  
 My trimming lengths now are 1.745-1.750     Max per manual is 1.760
 whats the lowest trim length I can get away?
  Should i consider neck sizing dies for this semi auto rifle?
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Offline ricciardelli

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Hard hand ejection ?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2006, 06:03:46 AM »
"Now considering the case is fireformed to the chamber, how can a die make the shell larger"

Over-sized expander plug.
Setting neck back too far causing a bulge.
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Offline Larry Gibson

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Hard hand ejection ?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2006, 06:06:07 AM »
Quote from: slider
No visable marks on necks. I bought the dies new, and have had the problem for a while. The thing I don't get is, the case is fireformed upon firing and a fired case while hand eject with no problem. Now I understand the case will stretch and when I trim them back to specs this should fix the length. Now considering the case is fireformed to the chamber, how can a die make the shell larger, other than length, than it was before sizing?   Should I consider trimming shorter?  
 My trimming lengths now are 1.745-1.750     Max per manual is 1.760
 whats the lowest trim length I can get away?
  Should i consider neck sizing dies for this semi auto rifle?


Try this;

Take a deprimed, sized and trimed case that is giving you hard extraction (not ejection) and rimove the depriming stem from the die. Screw the die in until the shell holder butts firmly against it but does not cam over. Lightly lube the case and FL size it. Wipe the lube off, chamber the case, close the bolt and try to extract the case. If it extracts then the problems is the expeander pulls the shoulder forward as it is pulled through the neck. To solve this either lube the necks, ensure they are clean or slightly reduce and polish the expander (or get a carbide expander). If that does not solve the problem look at the next potential cause.

It has been already mentioned but some times it is not visiable. Take a FL sized case that is the max OAL for your chamber. Put it in the shellholder and lower the ram with the die backed out. Make sure the seating stem is also backed out. Screw the die down until you feel the crimping shoulder in the die bump onto the case mouth. Back the die off 1/2 turn and set the lock ring. Many times if the case is to long or the die not set right the crimp part of the die will push down on the case either slightly bucling the the shoulder or bulging the case body. Either of these is the prime cause for hard extraction as you describe. Note on crimping; I've been shooting .223/5.56 in gas guns (several differant ARs, Mini14s and G3s plus a couple others) and have yet to find a need for crimping. The 5.56 is crimped because like most military cardges they are also use in real machine guns which slam the cartridges around in feeding more than the rifles.

If the above does not solve the problem then it is probably that the dies are not setting the shoulder back far enough for your chamber. You can alter your die or get new dies. To alter the die take .003" off the bottom of the die. This can be done by anyone with a lathe. Reset the die for complete FL sizing and try it. If that doesn't work get a new die. I suggest the regular RCBS X-Die (not the small base).

I currently have a RCBS regular die, a Forster benchrest die, a Dillon die and the X-Die. All of them size 5.56 cases correctly for use in numerous guns including my Colt Comp AR. I almost always use the X-Die exclusively because that has eliminated the need for trimming after each firing.

Let us know how you do.

Larry Gibson
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Offline slider

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Hard hand ejection ?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2006, 11:31:30 AM »
I think I was to blame all along!! I lowered the expander plug, and adjusted my die a bit lower. Now all seems to be fine, hand extraction is normal with no stuck cases. Now this poses another problem. I have approx. 100 loaded rounds that are hard to hand extract, although this seems to be the only problem, and I fired some with no apparent issues, should I fire these or just trash them? I would pull them, but there all crimped.      I feel kinda stupid for such an elementary problem, but I have been reloading for about 3 yrs, roughly 12 different calibers and this was my first real problem, so I guess I'm not to bad!!  LOL

  Thanks for all your quick and knowledgeable info!!
                                                K.L.L.
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