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Author Topic: 4895 and the 223  (Read 826 times)

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Offline ButlerFord45

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4895 and the 223
« on: March 06, 2006, 07:12:54 AM »
I just picked up a new-to-me AR-15.  Saturday morning I made a quick trip to Gamaliel Shooting Supply amd picked up four different bullets, WW primers and a bunch of Winchester brass.  With out thought or hesitation I ordered up some IMR 4895.  When I got home and started looking through the reloading manuals and online sources, it seems that 4895 isn't the prefered do-all powder for the 223/5.56 anymore!!  Has it fallen from grace or is my memory really getting that bad???
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Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
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tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline Questor

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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2006, 08:17:31 AM »
It doesn't mean that it's no good, it just means that other things have come along recently for this popular cartridge. You may want to give Varget a try too.  I like the temperature insensitivity because I live in an extreme climate and may do my load development in very cold weather and shoot in very hot weather.
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Offline 243tom

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4895 and the 223
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2006, 09:51:56 AM »
Well I just began reloading for my 223 and I too bought H4895 and IMR3031 to start with for comparisons.  I did a lot of research here and some other sites and started a tally of what guys used and liked and what they also said about extruded vs. ball.  I also load for my 243 so I wanted a crossover powder that would go with both calibers.
I've yet to shoot any of the 243 loads but I get a little better groups in the 223 with 3031.  Not loading to max either.......26.0 of 4895 vs. 25.0 3031.
I may try some Varget and Benchmark one day,,but not for a while.
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Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2006, 03:39:10 PM »
my .223 shoots 26 grains of varget into a half inch and so does my .243, but with 33.5 grains of varget.

i tried H4350 for the .243 and 4895 for the .223 but both times the varget loads impressed me.

Try some of it, Butlerford. see if it gets the job done for you.

-Matt
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Offline Gregory

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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2006, 12:36:30 PM »
H-4895 is the powder I use in my 223.
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Offline 243tom

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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2006, 12:44:51 PM »
Matt,  What bullets are you loading for each caliber ?

I want to stay with 50gr for the 223 Savage and 40gr for my NEF.  The Savage seems to group most anything I put in it. And the NEF...short, standard barrel,, well you know how that goes.  More of a pattern than a group.......really erratic with most all loads.  Even the gold standard WWB 45gr.  But I've just started reloading and there more experimentation to do with the 40s'.
The 243 Ultra,,I loaded some 87gr SP by Hornady and they shot okay with both 4895 and 3031 a grain and a half less than max.  But I'm gonna do more tryouts there too. I'm hoping to get a load in the SP and the 87 Vmax that will shoot near the same group.  Wishful hoping ??
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Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2006, 01:34:34 PM »
using a 95 grain ballistic silvertip in the .243. i tried a hornady 87 grain soft point but it wouldn't co-operate at all with varget or my barrel just plain didn't like it.

the .223 all i have ever loaded is 50 grain VMAX bullets.

-Matt
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Offline MnMike

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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2006, 05:28:53 PM »
243Tom

Actually the Handi can be made to shoot. I bought a .243 and was depressed with the spread. I worked with it for a while and tried many of the tips on the Greybeard NEF forum. What seemed to work for me was:

Seat the bullets out nearly to the lands. My gun was long throated. I measured the chamber and reset my dies.

Rest the gun as close to the hinge as possible.

Try a few different bullet weights.

My groups got to the 1 1/4" range. Bad for a Contender, but better than the 6" I was getting.

mike
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Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2006, 01:06:41 AM »
Quote from: MnMike
243Tom

Actually the Handi can be made to shoot. I bought a .243 and was depressed with the spread. I worked with it for a while and tried many of the tips on the Greybeard NEF forum. What seemed to work for me was:

Seat the bullets out nearly to the lands. My gun was long throated. I measured the chamber and reset my dies.

Rest the gun as close to the hinge as possible.

Try a few different bullet weights.

My groups got to the 1 1/4" range. Bad for a Contender, but better than the 6" I was getting.

mike


7500
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Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline MnMike

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4895 and the 223
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2006, 04:17:24 PM »
ButlerFord

OK, what does 7500 mean?[/quote]
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Offline ButlerFord45

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4895 and the 223
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2006, 03:03:44 AM »
It is the aircraft transponder code for hijacking.    :)
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Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline mjbgalt

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4895 and the 223
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2006, 03:36:15 PM »
tee hee, good one, ButlerFord45.

-Matt
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Offline MnMike

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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2006, 04:33:36 PM »
I'm not smart enough to understand this joke.

Oh well,
God bless.

mike
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Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2006, 05:43:24 PM »
when someone changes the subject and "cheats" the asker out of his answers to his questions, it is said that the thread (conversation) has been hijacked.

-Matt
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Offline MnMike

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4895 and the 223
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2006, 01:48:49 PM »
Sorry, I was responding to 243tom about his Handi Rifle. I should have done it by private email.

I will shut up now.

mike
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Offline mjbgalt

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4895 and the 223
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2006, 04:24:00 PM »
no problems, he was teasing you.

-Matt
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Offline ButlerFord45

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4895 and the 223
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2006, 01:40:30 AM »
Quote from: mjbgalt
no problems, he was teasing you.

-Matt


YUP!

 :D  :D
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Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline 243tom

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4895 and the 223
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2006, 11:14:12 AM »
Okay guys......I'm gonna sorta hijack it too,,,I bought a pound of VARGET saturday.
Haven't shot any yet........so we'll have to see.
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Offline mjbgalt

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4895 and the 223
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2006, 02:06:25 PM »
work that varget up a half grain at a time in the .243...try 33.5 grains with a 95 grain silvertip.

-Matt
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Offline 243tom

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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2006, 09:36:58 AM »
Thanks for the recipe Matt.....but I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible.   Hornady 87gr SP and 87gr Vmax.
If I can't get a satisfactory group from them,,,,somehow,,, this Ultra is likely to be getting traded or sold.
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Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2006, 02:28:46 PM »
i would still try varget. it worked wonders in my rifle. nothing else would group. besides, it is about as temperature-versatile as possible and not expensive.

-Matt
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