Author Topic: H&R Buffalo Classic 45/70 Reloading (Read 2633 times)

bubbared · « **on:** February 21, 2006, 04:39:38 PM »

Finishing up on my set-up to start reloading for my 45/70. I have selected H4198 Powder and Hornady 300GR HP. I want to use the Barnes X-Bullet (45802) .458 300 GR Flat Base Cannelured. Are there any users of this bullet out there?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2006, 05:14:54 PM »

Welcome aboard!!

I use H4198, but with the 300gr Nosler Partition and soon to be, the 300gr Speer UCHP, those Partitions are just too spendy!!

Tim

Hunternz · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2006, 10:28:53 PM »

Howdy, with the right powder and powder weight I have got those Hornady 300gr shooting well.Looking forward to seeing the bullets performace on an animal, have to wait a coupleof weeks, as I am hunting ducks and dog trialing the next couple of weekends.
Regards Howard.

bucknbass · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2006, 01:23:34 AM »

I just got mine and will be shooting both of your bullets this weekend. Going on a hog hunt next month. The 45802 will be a fairly short range bullet as Barnes has told me it needs 1,600fps to open. My shots will be short so no issue here. If the speed was expected to be lower than that they recommended he XFN which only requires 1,100fps to open.

Center Shot · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2006, 05:17:36 AM »

I just bought a BC and have been experimenting with different loads The 300 gr. Speer with 4198 looks promising. Ionly had time to check one load as the weather and my priming tool both took a crap. Am waiting on some 500 gr. that I plan on loading with XMR5744.

lovedogs · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2006, 06:09:33 AM »

After using my BC .45-70 for a year in long-range silhouettte with 500 gr. cast bullets I decided to look for a jacketed 300 gr. load for hunting deer. While 4198 was accurate enough I (with the help of a Chrony and some steep hills) found that the 4198 was position sensitive. It lost considerable velocity shooting downhill at steep angles, like what one might do when shooting at game.

After some testing I found I could use Alliant Reloder 7 with a magnum primer with minimal velocity loss in the same test.

My load wound up being 36 gr. of RL7, a CCI 250, and the cheap 300 gr. Rem. HP from Midway. They shoot into nice, tight 3/4 in. groups. I shot an antelope and a deer with it last fall and that load worked wonderfully.

wgr · « **Reply #6 on:** March 21, 2006, 01:50:20 PM »

at this time iwaiting on my hR bc to get home in the past i have shot pp bullets in my muzzler loaders and got great results anyone out there load pp for the buffalo classic i like cast bullets and my way of thinking has allways been if u have a good barrell the right twist then u can put togather a load that will shoot and shoot well a cast led bullet has what is needed for game it penetratsgood and opens up with little weight loss any comments on this

Mac11700 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2006, 05:32:38 AM »

I've never had a problem with H-4198 being position sensative..it's alsways preformed flawlessly for me with the Nosler Partition..RL-7 on the other hand has given a large velocity swings when using Cast Performance 405gr WLNGC from every 45-70 I've owned due to the tempreature..very accurate though..very accurate...I got some real good accuracy from the Federal Factory load with those Speer bullets..almost as good as my Partition load..but a-lot slower...didn't get a chance to do any reloading with them yet....but will definatly have to try them..The partitions work superbly..they put game down very quickly and leave ample blood trails..even though I haven't needed to do any trailing when using them..they open great even at long ranges..They are pricey....that's for sure..but they are worth it for my hunting loads...

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** March 22, 2006, 05:55:48 AM »

Perhaps the reason we haven't had any position sensitivity issues with H4198 is cuz we're using high load densities!!! :grin:

Tim

lovedogs · « **Reply #9 on:** March 22, 2006, 12:01:38 PM »

I think you're probably right about the culprit being the loading density issue. I was using a 32 in. bbl. so don't need as much powder to get the speed and I was trying to keep recoil down so wasn't using much of a charge. My Chrony showed a velocity variation of about 200 FPS when shot downhill at a steep angle. That's why I couldn't use the 4198... sometimes we must shoot downhill. The RL7 with a CCI250 worked fine. Alliant says a mag primer isn't needed but I shoot in cold weather and wanted to light a low-density load and, as stated, it worked fine.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** March 22, 2006, 12:33:24 PM »

FWIW, I shoot the 300gr Nosler PP Partition in my 22" barrel, velocity is 2425fps, the same load in my 32" BC barrel is 2450fps, so it depends on the powder as to what velocity you'll get in the 32" barrel, some won't make much difference as in the H4198. I'm working on H4895 in my .405 Winchester Target, 45-70 and 45-120 BC barrels, it seems to have a lot of promise as to utilizing the extra barrel length. I've shot a lot of 5744 in the 45-120, it is not position sensative in the least and that's with about a 50% or less load density!! The nice thing about the Hodgdon Extreme powders, I don't have to worry about temperature changes affecting performance, unlike a lot of other powders.

Tim

lovedogs · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2006, 05:15:20 AM »

Wow, Tim, those are some stout loads. The loads I used last fall were only pushing the 300 grainers a little over 1800 FPS. That outdoes a .454 by a considerable margin and does a fine job on animals suitable for the light 300 gr. bullets. No matter what we do the .45-70 isn't really a long-range game gun so I figure I'll keep it low and not have to deal with the recoil. Both animals shot last fall were knocked flat, penetration was complete... I couldn't ask for more.

Good hunting to you and God bless!

Mike

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2006, 05:47:00 AM »

Mike,

I don't like stout recoil any more than the next guy, so I deal with it for bench work with a Limbsaver or Galco recoil pad, 2¼lbs of lead in the stock bolt hole, a Past Magnum shoulder pad and sitting as upright as I can. Recoil when shooting while hunting is a non-issue, I don't even notice it, I shoot 2¼oz 3½" turkey loads in my 12ga 835 Ultimag, recoil is about twice that of the .45-70 hot loads at around 70 ft/lbs. :wink:

Tim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2006, 06:01:41 AM »

Quote

No matter what we do the .45-70 isn't really a long-range game gun so I figure I'll keep it low and not have to deal with the recoi

With our 2400 fps 300 grain partition loads,you have taken and made a 250 yard deer gun with it..you'll be about 3-1/2" high at 100...200 yard zero...and about 6-1/2" low at 250 yards...even at 250 yards..you'll still have over 1500 ftlbs of energy...not bad for this old warhorse...

Mac

lovedogs · « **Reply #14 on:** March 24, 2006, 01:39:04 PM »

With a whole cabinet full of guns I think I get more enjoyment out of my "cheap" Buffalo Classic than any other. Whatever it hits stops right there, and sillywet shooting is really fun with it, too.

mattparliament · « **Reply #15 on:** March 24, 2006, 05:14:44 PM »

"No matter what we do the .45-70 isn't really a long-range game gun so I figure I'll keep it low and not have to deal with the recoil"

Ahhh, reoil schmecoil.... Like Quick says, recoil is non issue while hunting and there are ways to deal with it during development and at the bench. As far as accuracy goes, I have no complaints.....

lovedogs · « **Reply #16 on:** March 25, 2006, 03:37:21 PM »

I guess my comments on recoil are sort of all-inclusive. I just don't like recoil. I don't mind admitting that. And it bothers me even more since I had a horse wreck that disabled me. It took 30 months of surgeries and therapy to put my right shoulder back where it belongs and return my arm to usefullness. So I have good reason to be careful with recoil. Also, it cost roughly $110,000 to fix me up. I have no desire to damage anything and have to go through that again, or perhaps not be able to shoot anymore.

With that said, my main concern with recoil is with my 500 gr. match loads. The few loads, of any weight, that I shoot off a bench or hunting are of little concern. But when we shoot a match we shoot at least 40 rounds minimum. I know of no one who doesn't try to minimize the cumulative effect of recoil in match shooting. The macho men who don't manage that wind up with purple shoulders and their shooting goes south. So, myself, and many others, are concerned with recoil.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2006, 05:45:48 PM »

Quote from: lovedogs

I guess my comments on recoil are sort of all-inclusive. I just don't like recoil. I don't mind admitting that. And it bothers me even more since I had a horse wreck that disabled me. It took 30 months of surgeries and therapy to put my right shoulder back where it belongs and return my arm to usefullness. So I have good reason to be careful with recoil. Also, it cost roughly $110,000 to fix me up. I have no desire to damage anything and have to go through that again, or perhaps not be able to shoot anymore.

With that said, my main concern with recoil is with my 500 gr. match loads. The few loads, of any weight, that I shoot off a bench or hunting are of little concern. But when we shoot a match we shoot at least 40 rounds minimum. I know of no one who doesn't try to minimize the cumulative effect of recoil in match shooting. The macho men who don't manage that wind up with purple shoulders and their shooting goes south. So, myself, and many others, are concerned with recoil.

Recoil does have the cumulative effect of wrecking anyones day..so..you need to take some extra precautions when shooting them...a Past strap on magnum shoulder pad..and about 2-1/5lbs of lead shot in the butt stock..and a nice soft recoil pad for your face...something like this would look really cool on it I believe..

You can get them here...http://www.cheeknstock.com/products.html

There are other ones available..but I think this is one of the nicest ones around..and if you add a leather Galco recoil pad..it would look be even better...

Quickdtoo has one I sold him..it's a good looking pad..and it works good to...here's what his looks like...

Cabela's has a lace on type if you prefere..looks like this..

or even a nice soft neopreane type rubber..

The main thing is to be comfortable when shooting..

Mac