Author Topic: Yee Haww An Excaliber (Read 2035 times)

jh45gun · « **on:** April 15, 2006, 03:50:16 AM »

Due to a great deal that a member on the Excaliber website ( GaryL) offered me I am now the proud owner of a Excaliber Wolverine Crossbow. Been wanting an Excaliber for a while since I have heard all the great reports about them. They are extremely accurate. The Wolverine is a earlier model with a camo painted wood stock instead of a composite stock it is pretty much the same as the new models. The wood stocked model is a bit lighter so that is a plus as far as I am concerned. Ordered a scope mount yesterday and got to make some bolts
( arrows) up and I will be ready to shoot it.

I have lots of 16 inch ones for my Barnetts but this xbow takes a 20 inch bolt so back to making some up. While I am not knocking my Barnetts I have two recurves a Commando and a Ranger they cannot compare to a Excaliber as far as accuracy and a great trigger system. This will wear my stacked 3 dot sight on it and my Commando will have a single red dot sight on it for a spare system. Though this Excaliber is used you sure can not tell by looking at it, It looks like new. I cannot wait to get it set and start shooting it.

Thank you Gary! :grin:

smokepolehall · « **Reply #1 on:** April 27, 2006, 06:30:18 AM »

Congrats on the fantastic Excalibur Crossbow. Welcome to the best, well above the rest. I could be one sided, such is life. :grin:

jh45gun · « **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2006, 05:14:25 PM »

No I agree from what I see they have to be the best out there bar none. I have a friend who has a 10 point and they are nice but they are really proud of them price wise. You can get a top of the line Excaliber for a little more than what the 10 points start out at. No wonder 10 point is coming out with a 6 point line which I am guessing will be more reasonable priced. I still like the recurve system over the compound one.

smokepolehall · « **Reply #3 on:** April 29, 2006, 04:07:05 PM »

I shot a 3 shot group less than 1" during practice using my Phoenix and factory peep, off hand at 20 yds. I took a pic and had 2 eye witnesses. Those Excalibur Crossbows can really shoot, and so accurate. A person couldn't ask fer anything more out of one.

jh45gun · « **Reply #4 on:** April 29, 2006, 04:50:02 PM »

Have not shot mine yet my 89 jimmy finally bit the dust. I am thinking about getting a Jeep Cherokee or Grand Cherokee. From what I have heard they are a good vehicle. So no wheels, probably will have it this week. SO until then I cannot get out to shoot. I just got my scope mount on Thurs and got the 3 dot red dot mounted. As soon as I get wheels I will get to shoot it. :grin:

jsteele · « **Reply #5 on:** May 17, 2006, 10:32:11 AM »

Jh45gun - saw your post on excal

same crosshair for 20 and 30 yards....still want to tell me how bolts drop like a brick?

jh45gun · « **Reply #6 on:** May 17, 2006, 05:30:18 PM »

No it is a stacked 3 dot sight first dot was used at 20 yards with the first dot and the second dot was used at 30 that is the only two ranges I shot. I felt that I did not have to explain I used the second dot for 30 yards as most folks would know that! I will say since these arrows are longer at 20 inches they hold energy better than the short 16 inch arrows I used to shoot penetrate better too. Now I explained it so drop it as GB has warned you and I do not want to see you gone from the forums.

jsteele · « **Reply #7 on:** May 18, 2006, 09:41:27 AM »

fair enough.

I'm not trying to cause any trouble.

I am curious now that you have a more representative crossbow if your opinion has changed about its relativity to vertical bows.

You know, now, it doesn't drop like a brick. I want to see you if you will tell it like it is....

jh45gun · « **Reply #8 on:** May 18, 2006, 10:53:23 AM »

Ok here is my position. I know that shorter/lighter arrows maybe faster but do not hold their energy as well as a heavier one. Same with Bullets. With my old xbow it probably had a more of a rainbow trajectory than this one. It also did not penetrate as well. I was basing my findings on that particular inexpensive Barnett model which cost a 100 bucks new. Considering that most xbows start out at $300.00 plus that particular Barnett was not a good example to start a arguement with. Since that particular xbow shot 16 inch arrows and did not have much of a powerstroke the arrows did drop fast. I would compare this Excaliber xbow in power with the 20 inch arrow more inline with a vert bow in the 60 to 70 pound class I suppose as the arrow speeds I got over the local Archery shop chrony was as follows 20 inch 2219 shaft 5 inch feathers and aluminum inserts with a 125 grain head speed was 245 fps. with every thing the same except for a 2213 shaft the speed was 262 fps. Since we all know that xbow and bow companies use the lighest arrow to advertise speeds I think this is about average for I suppose most bows or xbows if they are using a heaver arrow set up. Some more some less. I suppose if I went to a 100 grain head I could get more speed in the 270 fps area but I would prefer penetration over speed. So I will concede that all things being equal if you shot a 20 inch arrow out of a 70 pound bow with a over draw setup and the same weight arrow the drop I suppose would be close. Using your sights to over come drop I suppose makes a difference on what you may see in performance. I would say this xbow is comparable to a vert bow of the 60 to 70 pound class. There is no way my old xbow would come close though and that is one reason that the arrows dropped like they did. I would also suppose that the 175 to 225 pound xbows would shoot a bit flatter and be more like the 70 to 80 pound vert bows. Bottom line to me is that shorter arrows drop faster because they do not hold their energy as well. This I still believe. I also have come to see all things being equal on the arrow out to hunting distances the arrows pretty much act the same. Since the xbow has a shorter powerstroke than the average vert bow the heavy poundage of the xbow equals the same poundage of the average hunting bow of 60 to 80 pounds depending on the variables involved. So in some instances the arrows will drop faster denpending on what they are and what they were shot out of. In other cases things are fairly equal depending on equipment used. I guess I should not have painted a broad brush with just using my beginner level exbow as a representation of all xbows as they are not the same. Same with bows. Bottom line is at hunting distances the arrows are about equal in performance. That said I do not know why bow hunters are so up set as both methods are pretty equal in performance. For the record I do not hunt out of trees I am disabled and I shoot from the ground and the deer can see me and I do make movements they can see and I still kill a lot of deer so the movement arguement for to me is BS as I move far more than a guy in a tree stand does, but that is the way I hunt. If the deer stays for a shot great if not and it runs away I look for a other. I still kill deer every year wether it be with a gun or a xbow and in the past with a bow. Fair enough???

jsteele · « **Reply #9 on:** May 18, 2006, 02:11:33 PM »

Yup - fair enough.

Thanks for setting the record straight.

It is fair to say that a bow and crossbow launching an arrow (bolt) of equal weight will have trajectories that are similar.

Now the arguement becomes what is a typical bow velocity and what is a a typical crossbow velocity.....but I won't go there!LOL :-D

jh45gun · « **Reply #10 on:** May 18, 2006, 07:08:26 PM »

There is too many variables there. I do know that most xbows are advertised now days at anywhere from 240 to 350 FPS depending on model and poundage. The Powerstroke would have to do a lot with the poundage and the weight of the arrow too. I see some compound bows advertised up to 315 fps saw a range here from 275 to 316. As with the xbows I would guess they would use the lightest arrow they can to get these speeds with out causing a dryfire condition for either weapon. So the average guy using either platform if they choose a heavier arrow will get lower speeds. I am sure I could get my xbow to shoot in the 275 range with lighter heads but I prefer to keep the arrows heavier that way I know I will have better penetration and that I will not be shooting too light of a arrow. Though I can go as light as 350 grains with the Excaliber which is fairly light. Just weighted my arrows for the 2213's with a 125 head they go 390 grains with the 2219s they went about 470 grains so I could use a 100 grain head with either and still be within limits. Might give that a try too just to see how they fly and what kind of penetration I get compared to the heavier arrows. Now I used my reloading scale so not sure how accurate that is for arrows, but it gave me a idea anyway. I think I would keep the 2213's with the 125 heads and maybe try a lighter head on the 2219s to see how that would work. Or may keep them the way they are if I like the heavier arrow better. Like I stated before from what I have read recently a xbow of 175 to 200 poind pull is equal to a 70 to 80 pound bow in performance. Considering the speeds avertised and that most use a heavier arrow I would figure they both should be about the same.

jsteele · « **Reply #11 on:** May 19, 2006, 10:35:33 AM »

Well, you are getting closer.

Since most bowhunters pull dramatically less than 80#, and shoot arrows heavier than IBO, I think you can understand the performance differences we are talking about.

I won't belabor the point, because it is obvious to me that you have a much better understanding of the ballistics of typical weapons from both categories now than when we started this conversation.

Every once in a while the other guys are right, you know.

jh45gun · « **Reply #12 on:** May 19, 2006, 06:19:16 PM »

True but at the time I was right considering what I was shooting an ( Bottom of the line Barnett 100 dollar special) it did drop like a rock compared to what I am shooting now. It also dropped a lot more than my bow did. This Excaliber is a lot closer to what my bow would shoot like. So at the time I was reporting what I saw. Others who shot xbows when I asked them claimed they do drop a bit more than a regular bow so I was going on that also. How much difference depends on what is being used so you and I were both right depending on what was being used. Bottom line is they both drop at a distance and they both are to be reasonble a 40 yard or under weapon for most folks. I suppose some experts could shoot a bit farther using a bow or a xbow but the average guy the closer the better I would say.

jh45gun · « **Reply #13 on:** May 19, 2006, 06:29:15 PM »

True most guys would not shoot 80 pounds and most use heavier arrows. Got this of the fact and myth list posted here at the forum and this says it better than I could.

FACT: A modern 150# draw weight compound crossbow delivers the same speed and stored energy as a 65-70 pound compound vertical bow. The crossbow requires twice the amount of draw weight because the power stroke (draw length) is half as long as that of the compound bow. If both types of bows launch the same weight arrow at the same speed, how can a crossbow be more efficient and does the deer really care?

No matter what I feel there is room for both and we would be better off fighting the anti's than ourselves. That goes for the muzzle loader debates about inlines or traditional too.

jsteele · « **Reply #14 on:** May 20, 2006, 02:06:35 PM »

I'm not sure you should take those "facts" as facts.

You seem to be doing better learning on your own.

Its easy to be mislead by those who intend to mislead.

jh45gun · « **Reply #15 on:** May 20, 2006, 05:31:06 PM »

With the fact I posted we pretty much agreed earlier that that was true. I have seen bow hunters mislead facts on the crossbow issue a lot, and I would bet you will claim the opposite, but the is not the issue we had a good discussion going lets not ruin it by pointing fingers on either side about misleading or GB will shut this one down. Jim

jsteele · « **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2006, 09:46:12 AM »

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone.

I'm stating I don't think those "facts" are facts.

I doubt that 150# is average for the hunting xbows going out the door.

With your new found enlightment, you can take it from there .....

jh45gun · « **Reply #17 on:** May 23, 2006, 07:01:42 AM »

Well it is hard to say as it really depends on the powerstroke of the xbow Both my Barnett Ranger and my Excaliber are at 150 pound ratings but the excaliber shoots a longer arrow and has a longer powerstroke which makes it a more effective xbow and faster even though it shoots a longer heavier arrow. The same would go for 175 pound pull and the 200 and 225 pound pulls ect all depends on the power stroke and how heavy a arrow ect. I think they use the 150 pound pull as average I suppose as most xbow makers make a xbow that poundage. A xbow could be rated at 180 pounds like my Barnett Commando but it still does not shoot as fast as my Excaliber due to the same short powerstroke my other Barnett Ranger does and the 16 inch bolt.

We are talking averages here so I would guess that they all even out some what with a 150 pound xbow shooting about the same as a 65 to 70 pound bow. Having shot both I would say that is a pretty fair statement. The arrow kills the same no matter what it was shot from and both will drop about the same all things being close to equal.

jsteele · « **Reply #18 on:** May 23, 2006, 02:00:16 PM »

OK - I'll buy that.

A good 150# crossbow = a good 65-70# compound. And somewhere less than 65# is the typical hunting compound average, but let's use 65# for arguemnet's sake.

Now .... what does that tell us about the 185# (tenpoint) and 200# (excalibur) crossbows and their performance?

What should we expect from the exomag, with 225# draw weight?

jh45gun · « **Reply #19 on:** May 23, 2006, 06:55:01 PM »

Well they would shoot faster of course, but then and again my Martin compound was a 70# bow but since it was older about 10 years old and a wheel bow as that is what I wanted after I had bad luck with a older Jennings Cam bow it shot slower I suppose in the 260 fps range as a guess. Some of the newer cam bows shoot up to 315fps The Exomag claims are 350fps but then that is with the lightest arrow combo they can use as is the 315 fps with the newer cam bows. Some of the heavier xbows may be faster but then so are the newer cam bows. I would guess you take a newer cam bow and put on a overdraw and shoot a shorter lighter but stiffer arrow (shorter +stiffer) and the speeds will go up on that too. Like I said a lot of variables in this subject.

jsteele · « **Reply #20 on:** May 25, 2006, 01:23:32 PM »

Quote from: jh45gun

I would guess you take a newer cam bow and put on a overdraw and shoot a shorter lighter but stiffer arrow (shorter +stiffer) and the speeds will go up on that too. Like I said a lot of variables in this subject.

You would be guessing wrong. Unlike crossbows, the speeds reported for compounds are IBO - meaning as light as you can possibly go, 5 gr/lb. You can't go lighter - to do so would be dangerous, so overdraws don't help. The IBO speed represents the maximum the bow is capable of. The IBO speedsa you see for bows represent the spped of a 350gr arrow, 70# draw weight, and 30" draw. Most bowhunters use heavier arrows (more like the 420gr you might use in your excalibur), less draw weight (more like 60#) and many do not have a 30" draw length when they use a release.

Guess what that means?

jh45gun · « **Reply #21 on:** May 27, 2006, 09:04:00 AM »

I guess ya have me confused I thought the whole idea of a overdraw was to shoot a shorter arrow which would be ligher therefore faster?

?

jsteele · « **Reply #22 on:** May 27, 2006, 09:50:31 AM »

Yes, that was the idea back in the days before carbon arrows and 75gr broadheads.

Nowadays you can achieve minimum weights with full length arrows.

Anyway, that is not he point. When you see or report a vertical bow's speed it is the IBO speed. That arrow is a s light as you can get it without risking blowing up the bow.

So your idea that you can make a bow shoot faster than the reported number isn't true for vertical bows. What you see is the most you can get, and oftentimes it is less in real life since not many hunters draw 30" length and 70# weight.

As you can see, modern xbows hold significantly more advantage than you first believed.

jh45gun · « **Reply #23 on:** May 27, 2006, 08:47:02 PM »

You did not understand what I was trying to get at. I would say that xbows and vert bows use the fastest figure they can using the lightest arrow they can with out causing a dryfire for advertising figures as I think they feel that speed sells. If that is the IBO Speed so be it. What I was trying to get at is that in real life no matter what you use in all probability you are not going to get the speed with the arrow set up you probably will use as it will be heavier. I do not know about you, but I want some weight to my arrows so I will get good penetration and some thump to them. I feel you cannot get that with ligher arrows. JMHO. Therefore for now I am set up using 125 grain heads and aluminum shafts.

smokepolehall · « **Reply #24 on:** May 28, 2006, 03:44:49 AM »

Hey folks i don't know about others but i can tell about what i know as a fact. I have the 175lb. Phoenix and i use 2219's with 100gr. head be it field pts. or Bheads. The claim of 305 fps would be with carbon arrows and most likely 75gr. heads! Mine is 272 fps, using 5" vanes. Mine has a 14" power stroke. I like the heavy arrow and it passes thru deer every time. It also helps relieve the stress on limbs. From 10 to 40 yds. its sweet but 50 yds. is a very long way to shoot and mine drops at that range couple of feet. maybe a tad more. Can't shoot my compound anymore so its sell it or trade fer something i can use.

jsteele · « **Reply #25 on:** May 28, 2006, 05:21:11 AM »

I agree. Heavier arrows for hunting are advisable for both bows and xbows.

I know very few bowhunters who have their compounds set at IBO specs to hunt with. Most wisely lighten up on the draw weight and increase the arrow weight.