Author Topic: Didn't know where else to ask this (Read 1052 times)

crashresidue · « **on:** March 28, 2006, 10:32:10 PM »

Cheers all,

I've got a 30 year old Shilo Sharps .45-110. When I shoot jacketed bullets, I use the same round a .458 Weatherby Mag uses.

What's to keep me from loading this old horse up with the same load of smokeless as the W.Mag? Honestly, I'd start with probably an 80% load and work up.

She's got the #3 barrel - 16 pounds and the action is h*ll for stout. I'm not worried about her coming apart - but what sort to damage could I do to the barrel/bore? And, no, I don't know the twist - it's the standard Shilo heavy barrel twist.

I'd be bumping 2000/2400 fps, which is almost twice what I pump out with "black".

Any help would be appreciated. This may fall into the "only in my dreams" catagory - but I'd like to get an idea.

Thanks,
Gentle winds,
cr

GBO MGMT · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2006, 11:13:49 PM »

Nothing UNLESS you like having two eyes, ten fingers, two ears and all those other body parts you've grown accustomed to having. If you want to lose some of them and perhaps your life and for sure your rifle go for it.

The Sharps is an inherently weak action made for use with black powder at black powder pressure levels. It is NOT made for use with modern smokeless powder round pressure levels even one made with modern steels.

DO NOT DO IT.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 29, 2006, 01:23:45 AM »

Quote from: crashresidue

Cheers all,

I've got a 30 year old Shilo Sharps .45-110. When I shoot jacketed bullets, I use the same round a .458 Weatherby Mag uses.

What's to keep me from loading this old horse up with the same load of smokeless as the W.Mag? Honestly, I'd start with probably an 80% load and work up.

She's got the #3 barrel - 16 pounds and the action is h*ll for stout. I'm not worried about her coming apart - but what sort to damage could I do to the barrel/bore? And, no, I don't know the twist - it's the standard Shilo heavy barrel twist.

I'd be bumping 2000/2400 fps, which is almost twice what I pump out with "black".

Any help would be appreciated. This may fall into the "only in my dreams" catagory - but I'd like to get an idea.

Thanks,
Gentle winds,
cr

I would not do it at all, if you want to know some good information of Shiloh Sharps rifles go to the Shiloh Sharps web site. http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/

The Shiloh Sharps made "today" will handle smokeless powder, I was told by Shiloh Sharps, my "NEW" 45-70 can handle Ruger #1 loads, but I only shoot black powder loads in mine.

The Shiloh Sharps is a very good gun and should be shot with black powder only. If you want a 458 Win Mag, go buy one. Sell me your Shiloh Sharps and I will take good care of it and feed it a steady diet of black powder.

Why in the world would you want to shoot smokeless powder in a Shiloh Sharps? It is a Cardinal sin. :-D

Drifter Mike · « **Reply #3 on:** March 29, 2006, 05:57:27 AM »

You want to load a 45/47 to 458 Win Mag levels? Let me know as I have a Ruger No. 1 in 45/70 I will trade you and you can load it to those levels.
Mike

horseman308 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 29, 2006, 10:46:41 AM »

Okay, I entirely understand the sentiment involved in only shooting BlackPowder in a Sharps for historical reasons. In truth, if I was fortunate enough to have a Sharps, that's what I'd do to. I also understand the safety precautions that are involved with the lower operating pressures.

My question is, if companies like Shiloh, Pedersoli, and others who make reproduction Sharps's tell me that I can shoot a factory loaded .45/70 with smokeless powder, is it still unsafe? I ask because it would seem a horrible liability for them if it were unsafe.

marlinman93 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 29, 2006, 01:59:33 PM »

When Shiloh says you can shoot smokeless loads in their guns, they also say they don't reccommend it. It does seem to be a contradiction, and I guess they will accept responsibility for that.
I don't think most people buy a Shiloh or Pedersoli to shoot smokeless, and those who do usually use a slow burning powder to keep pressures down near BP range. At least the wise ones do.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 29, 2006, 04:48:52 PM »

Kirk from Shiloh Sharps will tell you that today's 45-70 Shiloh's are rated to take the same loads as a Ruger #1. You can also use jacketed bullets.. But why???

I like to stick with the black powder and cast bullets. The rounds look cool also.

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2006, 06:44:54 PM »

Maybe they do but I cannot imagine the makers saying the Sharps made today will take the same loads as the Ruger. I personally do not believe that is safe or sane advice. The Sharps action is not nearly as strong even when made from modern steels as is the Ruger #1. I would caution against it myself. I'd be VERY hesitant to shoot Marlin level loads in one but in all honesty suspect they would be safe. But Ruger level? Not this old fat boy.

crashresidue · « **Reply #8 on:** March 29, 2006, 06:48:33 PM »

OK - OK - I've been slapped down!!!

The reason for the post was an idea that came from another forum, in the SHTF type scenario(sp?).

Someone wanted to know about a rifle that could do double duty.

I can't get "black" here, but I can get Pyrodex - which I use.

I just got to wondering about turning my "mild mannered Sharps" into a high speed slinger. Without the "spotting smoke" I'll leave if I shoot "black"/Pyrodex.

Hodgen Powder gives smokeless loads shooting cast bullets that top out at around 1600 fps. They stop there becasue of heavy leading if you push the bullet faster.

BTW, I checked on the Ruger #1 - and they stop at the .458 Lott - with velocities pushing a 500 gn slug (2100 fps).

Thanks for the imput guys! I'm pushing lead at just over 1200 fps now, and the rifle is much more accurate than I am - I know, my wife regularly out shoots me at the range!

Old age SUCKS!!!!

Gentle winds,
Russ

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** March 29, 2006, 07:21:25 PM »

There are plenty of smokeless powder loads to duplicate BP level velocity at safe pressures if all you want to do is use smokeless powder. I never fired any BP in my Browning Hi Wall BPCR while I had it but I fired it with BP level smokeless loads using lead bullets.

crashresidue · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2006, 09:03:52 PM »

Cheers GB,

You're up late tonight!

One thing the Hodgen site didn't say was whether the cast rounds they were firing had a gas-check or not.

What would you recommend? I've never used them - and have NO idea about how to load them.

My Lady and I are planning to visit AL after this years fire-season. My folks are in B'ham and her's are in Rainsville. You up for a short "day visit" when we pass through G-town?

FYI - you're only breakin' trail for me by about 3 years - ain't old age FUN?

Gentle winds,
Russ

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 30, 2006, 02:16:14 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Maybe they do but I cannot imagine the makers saying the Sharps made today will take the same loads as the Ruger. I personally do not believe that is safe or sane advice. The Sharps action is not nearly as strong even when made from modern steels as is the Ruger #1. I would caution against it myself. I'd be VERY hesitant to shoot Marlin level loads in one but in all honesty suspect they would be safe. But Ruger level? Not this old fat boy.

Give Shiloh Sharps a call. I have dealt directly with Kirk and Lucinda. If the gun maker says it is OK it is OK. They are talking about the modern versions made today not 30 years ago. I would not give that advice if I did not get it from a reliable source.

Tel: 406-932-4266 or 406-932-4454
Fax: 406-932-5627
info@shilohrifle.com

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 30, 2006, 02:20:01 AM »

crashresidue, if you are not smoking the lead bullets at high speeds, the gas check is not needed.