how would this story read if someone would have hada pistol?

[myronman3]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060414/ap_on_re_us/bear_attack

  now i live and work in black bear country everyday.  big ones,  too.   i am also somewhere in between redhawk1's stand on bears and llyod smales position.  i believe they are amazing animals,  but i know good and full well that they need to be respected.  most times,  there is time to react when an encounter is happening.   blackies are usually show themselves before an attack; because they are indecisive about it.   every account i have heared or seen, there was time to grab rocks or sticks; which, means one could damn sure draw a gun to bear if you had one.  
   i advocate using your brain to be safe around bears.  but for the record,  they can be dangerous.

[Redhawk1]

It is indeed a sad day for that family.

[jeager106]

That's HORRIBLE!
I can't imagine the terror that mother will never out live.
Though I maintain that depending upon a handgun for stopping an aggressive bear attack my be false security I have said several times I would carry a hangun while hunting bear if legal.
(after reading this story who cares is it's legal?)
One would think that if someone would have had even a .357 or .38 someone might have stuck the barrel in the bruins earhole or something to save that child.
One would think that even a chest shot would have distracted the bear long enough to cause it to stop the attack and perhaps run off.
I need repeat a story that happened to ME in crowded NE Ohio where there are no bear.
There are however feral dogs that are becoming an ever increasing threat to children especially in winter at rural school bus stops.
I am older it's true, but I have been blessed with the most wonderful 6 year old boy a man could ever have prayed for.
Last spring he was 5 and spending the week-end with his "da-da".
Like all boys, me included, he love the woods, and we decided to gather firewood and have a campfire and roast hotdogs and marshmellows.
That boy loves his da-da.
Now mind you my place is secluded, no close neighbors, surrounded by woods, though only 25 minutes from a major city.
I never fool with guns when my boy is around, he's too little.
They are all locked up and unloaded.
That was a mistake!
We were busy gathering wood and though I keep an eagle eye on him I lost sight of him for only a moment.
He could not be more than 50 feet away so I stopped what I was doing and looked around and saw part of him standing only about 30 feet away but partially hidden by a large oak.
I moved only slighty and could see him from his back and he was standing bolt upright, absolutely frozen in palce.
No 5 year old does that unless something is terribly wrong!
Mystified I followed his transfixed gaze and to my horror saw a huge wolf like dog crouched only 15 or so feet from him ready to spring!
I had nothing in my hands, not even a stick. There was nothing to do but
s l o w l y walk to the lad without provoking an attack.
Needless to say the dog was stalking him and ignoring me completely.
You guys know that if the 'dog' had sprung I could not have stopped injury or worse to a 5 year old.
I picked up the terrified child who instinctively never moved a muscle, and walked backwards the less than 50 feet to the garage.
The dog followed at a crouch, it's eyes never leaving it's potential prey.
Inside the house the boy began to shake and cry as I put him in his room and unlocked the gun room door, grabbed a 12 gauge Mossy with slug barrel, and slugs and 3" 00 buck.
I carefully stepped outside and that son of a b$tch was back trailing my boys scent!
A slug to the chest put it down and it struggled back up even though the distance was only about 20 yards.
Another slug stopped the drama and a round of 3" 00 (pure anger on my part!) paid the insurance.
The thing looked like the once popular wolf/shepard cross breeds, a male, never neutered, with an old colar with tags from a county to the north and dated 1998.
Someone in the city dumped the thing and it survived, turning feral, since 1998. By the way, the thing was in apparent good health but obviously ungroomed and I estimated it's weight at over 80 pounds.
To this day I NEVER venture from the house without at least a Ruger Speed Six .357 strapped on my side.
When I go out with my now 6 year old on the ATV I carry and handgun AND the SKS goes on the buggy.

[Lloyd Smale]

any wild animal can be dangerous and some domestic ones too. Ive had to plug a couple aggressive dogs before and a handgun is usually on my side to take care of it. My prayers definately go out to the family!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060414/ap_on_re_us/bear_attack

  now i live and work in black bear country everyday.  big ones,  too.   i am also somewhere in between redhawk1's stand on bears and llyod smales position.  i believe they are amazing animals,  but i know good and full well that they need to be respected.  most times,  there is time to react when an encounter is happening.   blackies are usually show themselves before an attack; because they are indecisive about it.   every account i have heared or seen, there was time to grab rocks or sticks; which, means one could damn sure draw a gun to bear if you had one.  
   i advocate using your brain to be safe around bears.  but for the record,  they can be dangerous.

[bigbore442001]

I too feel upset and saddened for the loss of this little girl. I too question the logic in disarming the civilian while in such an area. But that is one reason why I don't camp or hike in areas that I cannot go armed in some fashion.

[Questor]

It probably would have ended the same. These things happen pretty quickly.

[corbanzo]

I have to disagree, it didn't say that the bear charged and bowled anyone over, it just said it came up and pick up the two year old in its mouth, and then the others had the time to hit it with sticks and rocks.  That is plenty of time for someone to shoot that bear, more than plenty.  It could of been that the two year old would have still been injured if nobody noticed fast enough, but it would of saved the others from injury.

[riddleofsteel]

I have patiently read most, if not all, of the "bear gun" threads lately. The constant questioning of those that feel threatened by bears, hogs, wild dogs ect and the advice, good and bad, of all the internet experts.
In 40+ years of woods roaming and hunting, canoeing and hiking I have had exactly two experiences that made me feel I was in real danger from animals. One was from a black bear that was tracking me while I dragged a bow killed deer out of the Shining Rock Wilderness area. The other was an outright attack by a group of feral/lost? dogs in the Thurmond Chatam Wildlife gameland. In both cases the handgun I was packing altered the perceived outcome in my favor. With the dogs that had me treed on top of a big rock, the first two that I shot took the aggression out of the rest of the pack. With the bear, thank God, two rounds fired into the dirt near him made my deer or me look less attractive as an easy meal. He was less than 35 yards from me popping his teeth and closing the distance. Waving my arms and shouting had done ZERO good.
ANY attack by a black bear is serious business. In a similar note any feral dog is extremely dangerous when hungry and usually does not fear humans. In both cases my Blackhawk loaded with hot .45 Colt rounds saved my butt.
 
IMHO

It is easy to carry and makes me feel a LOT better.

Now the real danger in the woods is the two leg predators. My experiences with them have been much more frequent. There again my woods gun has made all the difference.

Point is, I will not have my slug gun or SKS ranch rifle with me when I am woods roaming and canoeing and hiking but I will dern sure have my 4 5/8" Blackhawk loaded with .45 270 or 300 grain hardcast flat nose slugs at maximum velocity. It may not fit you guys idea of optimum bear/predator protection but it has saved my butt and probably will again.

ROS out

[Lloyd Smale]

you hit it on the nose pal the most dangerous animal in the woods is man and its the main reason to pack a handgun when your out there. these days with guys growing pot on state and fed lands you never know what your going to run across. Ive spent my life in black bear country and have seen a ton of them in the woods and have never been bothered by them. Not that it couldnt happen but the chances are they will run well before you see them. Wild Dogs are another big threat. Lots of people drop off old spot to fend for his own life in the woods and he goes wild. A domesticated wild dog is a very intelegent hunter and has little fear of man. this time of the year its good policy to pack in the woods lots of animals will in the near future be dropping little ones and alot  of them will fight to the death to protect there babys.

[myronman3]

yup, yup, and yup.   i agree on all counts with almost every post, except

It probably would have ended the same. These things happen pretty quickly.

 i think the way people think bears act is the major disagreement we have here.  

the vast majority of us agree, when at all possible, pack some heat.  like dad used to say, it beats your fingernails or throwing rocks

[Larry Gibson]

How could this happen!!!!?

Well, first of all it is spring time and the bears are just out of their winter nap. The sows have liitle ones to feed. In case anyone noticed there aren't any berries on the bushes and there's no fish spawning in the streams. Also this didn't happen at "Jellystone" so there weren't any picanic baskets for the cute little bears to steal. A bear has to eat something.

The big problem is obviusly the attitude of the people running the parks and forests and how they down play any danger. Think not? Read the article;

"Officials were still trying to piece together exactly what happened to spur the attack, forestry spokeswoman Sharon Moore said. Rangers said the animal might have been suffering from a disease that affected its behavior. "It's a pretty rare thing, black bears generally don't attack people. I can't think of any time other than — just really rare circumstances," park ranger Monty Williams said."  

Obviously Ranger Williams is really on top of it. Or is he? The paragraph of the news article says; "In May 2000, a woman was killed by a black bear near Gatlinburg. Glena Ann Bradley, a schoolteacher from Cosby, was attacked by two female bears when she took a walk on a trail near a Smoky Mountains campground." Why didn't the Ranger know that?

To compound that is the attitude of many, many people (including many chair bound internet experts) who listen to these "officials" as if they really know what they are talking about.

Would it have ended the same way if someone had had a gun? I have to disagree with that defeatest attitude of those who think it would have. The bear picked up the small boy first and as said there should have been time for someone to act with a gun. The boy was only injured as the others beat off the bear with sticks and stones. The girl ran 100 yards down the trail and was obviously chased by the bear and she was killed. If they had time to use sticks and stones then someone had more than enough time to effectively use a gun. Then perhaps the bear would not have been able to inflict the injuries it did on the mother and boy. Most likely the bear, if it lived, would not have been so inclined to overtake and kill the little girl.

Yes, it is a tragedy and a sad thing the girl was killed and the mother and boy injured. However, I say the real tragedy is that it was preventable (or most of it) had someone been armed.  Like I said on another thread, carry a gun. There ARE dangerous four legged and two legged animals out there.

Larry Gibson

[Dusty Miller]

This event occured in a park of some sort.  I don't know about other states but here in the PRC there is a "No Guns Allowed" sign at the entrance of just about every park and campground in the state.  So, you decide to be a good samaritan and shoot a bear that's attacking people, then what?  Do you end up in court for having the gun in the park and subsequently loose your right to own firearms? (Its the old "Good Guys Finish Last syndrome) Perhaps we need to be looking at the behavior of the parents and ask why they did not respond appropriately at the sight of a bear.

[myronman3]

yep.  i would rather sit in jail than do nothing and have a little girl die because of not doing anything.  but that is me.

[Old Griz]

:cb2: How much do the rangers know? Good question. There was a report on National Public Radio (yeah, I know they're just liberals) about the park rangers at Yellowstone solving a 20 year old mystery. Twenty years ago, someone turned in a lost wallet, and at the time the rangers could not find the owner. It had been setting on a shelf for two decades. A few months ago, someone tried a new forensic technique to find the owner. THEY OPENED THE WALLET AND LOOKED AT THE DRIVER'S LICENSE. Found out the lady still lived at the address on her license, and she finally got her wallet and $70 back. It took them that long to figure this out?!

These guys can carry guns in the park, and we can't??

[Lloyd Smale]

on the way out to the linebaugh seminar a couple years back we went through yellowstone and I watched as a father and little kid tried to walk up to a grizzly to get a close pics. Some people deserve to get ate! Dont tell anyone but i had about 15 handguns with me including one loaded under the seat. My truck doesnt move out of the yard without a gun under the seat and how be dammed if some silly law in the park is going to make me go around it. They would have thrown me in jail if they would have seen the armory in the back of the truck they probably would have thrown me in jail going through wisconson with it too.

[Old Griz]

:cb2: I agree with you Lloyd. With all the illegals, drug dealers, and assorted two-legged vermin, let alone the occasional four-legged ones, it is just too dangerous in today's world not to go armed in such a secluded area.

[mr.frosty]

That happened south of where I live in the lower part of the Smokies
in Bradley county north east of Chattanooga.
It is sad indeed my thoughts and prayers go to the family.

[riddleofsteel]

So, you decide to be a good samaritan and shoot a bear that's attacking people, then what? Do you end up in court for having the gun in the park and subsequently loose your right to own firearms? (Its the old "Good Guys Finish Last syndrome)

I do not know the exact particulars of this situation but I probably would have shot or shot at the bear. If and when the situation stabilized I would have beat a hasty retreat after asking the greatful parents for the favor of shielding my identity.
"Well he was a tall albino guy with a limp as I recall Mr. Ranger sir."

[myronman3]

or better yet... "the red crested sasquatch shot that bear, sir."

[Dusty Miller]

Nope, after you saved that family's collective behind they'd've turned on you like a pack of mad dogs.  Blind faith in the human race is a form of stupidity.

[mr.frosty]

bitter irony aint it

[myronman3]

most likely so, but i would sleep easier in jail knowing an innocent little girl was still alive than in my bed at home knowing she was dead.

[DirtyHarry]

      how would this story read if someone would have hada pistol?

First off let me say my prayers go out to the family and victims.
This was a tragedy that could have been avoided despite what some in the "no handgun" camp may wish to believe....

To answer the question myronman3 posed, I can tell you that if I had been on the scene it would have read "boy injured, bear dead",but instead you have a girl dead, a mother in critical condition and a boy in stable condition.
Would one of my 44's, 454's or 500mag have killed that bear? Absolutely with out question, would they have stopped a charge? maybe, maybe not, but we all see what the alternative to no handgun (sticks and rocks) accomplished. It allowed a second person to be injured critically and a third to be STALKED and killed.

[.44splx2]

I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong but Cherkee Nat'l. forest is not a Nat'l. park. Carry would be legal, no? I spent many years in E. TN. Working on the Ocoee, playing at Dollywood. East TN kicks butt.

[mr.frosty]

the smokies are  a state park which is federal
the campground is state land and if im not mistaken
guns aint allowed in a state park
turkey season is going on now so the gun issue is irrelevant
and the spring squirrel season is in may here
i live in the north cherokee wma and the attack was in the south cherokee
wma i believe.
 the bears are most likely renegades from the smokies
which arent afraid of people i have seen this up close  and with cubs
aint afraid of you

[4MUL8R]

I camped many many times on this land.  The small mountaintop lake is at the end of the road.  The road is winding and slow.  At the top of the mountain is a nice parking area, a lake with a swimming beach, and a building.  Off to one side is a short looping hiking trail, and it connects with a longer trail that goes from the top of the mountain all the way to the bottom.  About half-an-hour's walk from the lake is the waterfall.  It is (was) a single person trail, through stands of magnolia, oak, maple, and light brush.  It is not a trail that one expects trouble, of course, and it is also close to the main campground and you feel like you can make it back pretty easily.  But, you are not within earshot of anyone most of the time.  As a boy, I went to the waterfall many many times and played in the water.  I often went alone, while my parents and sister stayed at the beach or at the tent.  It was a long enough trail to be an adventure, but not too far from them.  Point is, near that waterfall, ain't no one going to be near you to help, nor hear you when you scream.  I can't imagine how that ranger was anywhere near the family when it all happened, but I'm sure his two revolver shots helped fend off the bear.  When I think of all the times we let the dog play by himself, or the cat, or even me and my sister just wandering around up there, I can thank God for keeping us safe.  Of course, this was 30 to 35 years ago, and life was simpler and we weren't worried about things like we are today.

[nomosendero]

Anyone who takes their family into these areas without at least 1 side arm simply isn't wise, but of course my heart goes out to the family. I have to go with riddleofsteel with this one. You have to do what's right in these situations & deal with the consequenses in the best manner possible.