Author Topic: 458 lott or 460 weatherby? (Read 3223 times)

tazmansports · « **on:** March 02, 2006, 10:40:12 AM »

Hey Guys!! I am new to the forum, but i have to say it has been great reading all the posts. I love all hunting and shooting sports. I am looking to add to the old riflr collection, and hopefully one day make it to hunt cape buffalo. I love just to shoot the big guns, so finally my question is, if you had to choose between the two, which would you buy and why?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2006, 11:08:11 AM »

458 Lott, it is just an awesome round.

I was never a Weatherby fan.

corbanzo · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2006, 01:47:19 PM »

I have the .458 in a CZ 550, and absolutely love it. Enough power to knock down anything, shoots good, and it will shoot .458 win mags to not hit the pocket book so hard. I've never shot the big .460, but I hear it kicks like a mule. Ammo is way expensive also. I guess that is what you can expect for 7500ft/lbs of muzzle energy!! If you want a good shooter, go for the .458. If you need to have the biggest cajones on the range, get the .460. But expect your wallet and shoulder to pay for it.

nasem · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2006, 02:28:25 PM »

Umm, you want to take a 458 or 460 for cape buffalo ? Honestly, big and powerfull is "nice" but sometimes that much recoil can cause a flinch and 1 mm of flich can mean the difference between a dead buffalo and a mad buffalo going after you......

My opinion is.... go with the one you can shoot more comfortably (I don't even know if this makes sence, .458 or 460 have heavy recoil).....IF I EVER went dangerous game hunting, my 375 h&h would be my number #1 choice, and your probebly thinking "pshhhh thats not really powerfull enough" and maybe your right, but I can place my 375 bullet MUCH better than I can place a .458 or a 460.

Some of the world's best Professional hunters use 375 h&h.... why ? becuase its powerfull enough to drop anything that walks this earth AS LONG AS they place thier bullet in the right place.

tazmansports · « **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2006, 03:35:47 PM »

just looking at fed ammo site, my 338rum seems to be a heavier hitter than the 375hh. that is the only reason why i did not look at that round, so i thought the 458 lott would be a good step up, any thoughts on that?

257 roberts · « **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2006, 05:32:33 PM »

Had a 416 rigby once, too much gun for me.
Watched a guy shoot the weatherby once and its ALL he wanted :eek:
You can shoot 458 win in the Lott if that helps you

nasem · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2006, 05:34:09 PM »

well, that is true, a .338 RUM would generate little more felt recoil than a standard 375 h&h ammo (from remington or federal).....

But you gotta remember, the .338 RUM is a hot load round, and the 375 h&h, well most factory loads are weighted DOWN alot to be shot in rifles that are 100 years old..... the true power of 375 h&h can be obtained if you reload them to maximum pressures and let me tell you, they will not become very pleasant to shoot after 10-15 rounds......Don't belive me ? shoot some of them Hornaday's Heavy magnums 375 h&h in 270 gr and 300 gr; they generate about 150ish or so ft-lbs of energy less than the mighty 375 RUM.

But to be honest, effective killing power is NOT obtained from fast bullets, a "weighted down" 375 h&h (example the 270 gr softs from remington) will give you ALOT more killing power than a .338 RUM......

If you want a rifle that will drop a cape buffalo in its track, buy a 375 h&h, PRACTISE PRACTISE PRACTISE with it, practise shooting it on the bench, standing up, on a tri-pod, on sad bags, anyway you hold it, learn how the rifle shoots then you'll become one elite killing machine

tazmansports · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2006, 03:09:57 AM »

thanks for all the great info guys!!--the only reason the 460 weatherby was a thought was that i had been told that they are all built with the muzz break on them and with that on the felt recoil was less than my 338rum with no break? has anyone heard the same?

tazmansports · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2006, 03:11:03 AM »

thanks for all the great info guys!!--the only reason the 460 weatherby was a thought was that i had been told that they are all built with the muzz break on them and with that on the felt recoil was less than my 338rum with no break? has anyone heard the same?

msorenso · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2006, 03:15:09 AM »

What these guys are saign is true! 375 h&h is plenty of gun.. It all depends on your recoil tolerance... I have 375 Rum and have no problems.. I don't think you can go wrong with either caliber but the 458 Lotts sounds very nice... Then if you want get the 460 weatherby.. i plan to have both someday and trully can't wait!!!! But maybe the lott would be a good start!

AK Fireman · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2006, 11:22:48 AM »

When I was researching for a rifle, I read that the Weatherby was prone to having extraction problems in hot weather, and that the 458Lott was becoming a very popular gun but the recoil was causing the bullets to compress while in the magazine. I was told by many reputable resources that the gun that they would choose would be the 416 rigby. I was also told that if you should loose your rifle in transit that the PH would more than likely loan you a 416 rigby in a CZ 550.

My advice is to do a thorough search on the web for pro's and con's of both and then if possible try and shoot a group at the range with both.You should also look at the pros and cons of having a beltless case and low chamber pressure, I dont know if there are cons. You should also look at the different ballistics, you might be suprised of what you think has more energy.

Or save yourself many hours of research and go buy the 416 rigby.

AK Fireman · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2006, 08:54:10 AM »

I should add that you need to consider how versatile you want the gun to be. I wanted a gun that could shoot at a longer range but could handle close up stuff.
If I had to choose a gun that would only be used for close shots <100yards then it would be the 458 Lott in a mauser type action over the Weatherby.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2006, 09:34:31 AM »

I have a 416 rigby in a CZ 550, I think it is a great rifle and round.

JD338 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 04, 2006, 03:49:11 PM »

I would go with the 458 Lott. You can download it with 458 Win Mag ammo. The Weatherby is expensive to shoot, even if you reload, the brass
is too much $$$.

Regards,

JD338

bigdoggy · « **Reply #14 on:** March 08, 2006, 02:31:36 PM »

I have both, and while the 460 is more powerful, with a muzzle break, I don't think it kicks a hole lot more than my ruger no. 1 in 458 lott at 9.25 lbs. The weatherby weighs 10.5 lbs. The older 460 factory ammo at 500gr./2700 ft. per sec./8092ft. lbs is quite an increase in footpounds over the lott at 2300ft/sec. But I am not sure why you really need another 2100 ft.lbs over a 458 lott. Most rugers have a 23" bl, while 460 weatherbys have a 26" bl. So the ruger has an advantage of being a little quicker and handier. Just my opinion.

msorenso · « **Reply #15 on:** March 09, 2006, 06:03:54 AM »

Bif dog,
If you were to get a 460 again or buy another would you get a break or not?? Is it worth all the extra noise and do you ever shoot it without ear protection??

bigdoggy · « **Reply #16 on:** March 09, 2006, 01:02:35 PM »

My 460 mark 5 has the built in muzzle break. I also have a 460 weatherby dangerous game rifle which has the removable brake. I have shot it both ways and there is definatley a difference in recoil. I usually have on hearing protection, on the few times I have shot without muffs, hell they are both really loud. If you plan on shooting alot of hot stuff I would opt for the break. You could always get the DG rifle with the removable break, but they are a little more expensive. Weatherby doesn't load the 460 as hot as they used to. Now the 500 grain is at 2600 fps. the older factory rounds were loaded to 2700 fps. A difference in 8090 ft. lbs and 7500 ft. lbs. Plenty of killing power with either but a little less recoil with the modern loads. Their 450 grain is at about 7250 ft. lbs, it retains more down field energy but who needs long range when shooting these big calibers. Either way you go, they are a real hoot to shoot . I like both of mine, but I shoot alot of big stuff and have for years. Hope this helps you out.

nasem · « **Reply #17 on:** March 09, 2006, 04:11:31 PM »

first of all, if you can afford a weatherby rifle in .460 YOU CAN aford an additional 300-400 dollars for the muzzle break,,....

2nd, I am having a hard time beliveving that you took the muzzle break off and simply said "there is a noticable difference in recoil".... its not noticable, ITS ABOUT 2X AS MUCH !!!!

bigdoggy · « **Reply #18 on:** March 10, 2006, 11:50:04 AM »

I don't think it is twice as much. I siad there is definatly a difference. The recoil is quite a bit more without the muzzle break. I have been collecting and trading guns for about 26 years. I certainly am not a wealthy man in terms of $$$, but I do have a nice family, 5 children. I don't spend alot on other stuff, I try real hard to buy a couple of good guns each year, if I am lucky maybe even three. Obviously, if you are not used to shooting big bore guns, you will probably notice the recoil more. Not that I am super man by any means, I have just done a fair amount of shooting. I am also a heavyweihgt literally, I weigh about 285 lbs. When I was in better shape at 215, it seemed like the guns kicked harder. I guess their is some advantage to having a little extra padding.

bigdoggy · « **Reply #19 on:** March 10, 2006, 11:57:20 AM »

To nasem, I didn't mean to imply that the muzzle brake was 300 to 400 dollars. The DG rifle is more expensive than a mark 5 for other reasons than the muzzle brake. And ( just my opinion) I don't think the recoil is twice as much, or at least it doesn't feel like it to me.

jro45 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 11, 2006, 06:35:38 AM »

I have the 416 in Rem. but if I had to choose between those two I would choose the Lott.

msorenso · « **Reply #21 on:** March 11, 2006, 07:56:46 AM »

Sometimes when you get above a certain level you do not notice much difference. For example I have a 7mm, 300,338 & 375 all in the ultra mag line.. 7mm & 300 & 338 feel really close.. Not much differnce between them , the 375 ultra is a little more than the previous.. All in all there is not much difference at all. I think when I get a weathrby it will be the Mark 5 without the muzzle break or if I do one that i can take off. The DGR would be great but I just am not a real fan of composite stocks..

Thanks for all the info

bigdoggy · « **Reply #22 on:** March 11, 2006, 05:25:27 PM »

I hope you are as pleased with your weatherby when you get one as I am with mine. Some people don't like weatherbys in gereral but I personally think they are a nice gun. Let me know what your opinion of the recoil is after you have taken it out shooting.

jro45 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 11, 2006, 04:30:22 AM »

I own the great Rem 416, but if I had to choose between those two I would choose the Lott 458.

K.K · « **Reply #24 on:** April 11, 2006, 02:29:20 PM »

I vote for the Lott, Does anything you need on the big stuff, and in a pinch, can chamber and shoot the 458 Win. mag. It may save your safari if your baggage doesn't show up on time with your Lott ammo. Also, you can load lower recoil practice rounds before your hunt on more readily available brass.

msorenso · « **Reply #25 on:** April 21, 2006, 06:28:16 AM »

Why don't people like the weatherbys??? They have always seem to be very nice to me. They are push feed correct??

corbanzo · « **Reply #26 on:** April 21, 2006, 07:30:35 AM »

Weatherby's are very nice rifles, if you haven't shot one, try it, they are a true pleasure, and their cartridges are of course, very capable. The only reason I would knock one is cause I'm not a rich man. Meaning that the price of the rifle, and of the cartridge is high. Also, why go with an extremely powerful cartridge like the .460, when the .458 is perfectly capable? I guess you could also say why hunt a deer with a .300 mag when a .270 is perfectly capable. It's all about preference. I might someday, if I have $2000 lying around get one of those monsters, but for now, the .458 will handle anything.

Brithunter · « **Reply #27 on:** April 27, 2006, 02:14:06 PM »

Hmmmm now if your planning on taking this "Big Bore" to Africa may I suggest you talk to a few outfitters first and ask their recomendations. You might be surprised :eek: the 460 Weatherbay has quite a lousy reputation in Africa it seems.

The 458 Lott is better than the .458WM and was developed to overcome some problems that the .458 was having reaching it's published velocity as Winchester had to download it so make ejection reliable in the heat. And yes I have a rifle chambered in the std .458 win mag. It's a Parker-Hale 1100M which of course is a Mauser 98 action. I have thinking about having mine re-chambered for .450 Rigby.

The .416 Rigby has an awsome reputation in Africa and another choice would be the 404 Jeffries. :wink:

Anyway you P-H would more than likely be much happier when you uncase your rifle and it's not a .460 Weatherby Magnum

same as he will be very happy if your boots are older well used ones but get their opinons as they live the life and know from actual experience.

msorenso · « **Reply #28 on:** April 28, 2006, 08:54:11 AM »

Not that I am not saying the 460 hasn't had its supposed down point but I guess i would really have to take someones opinion that has shot these animals with different calibers. So if you can find them on here (good luck) I would take their opinion. They say the technology of the bullets have not advanced enough for the velocity of the 460. I would think their has to be something? But all in all be assure the 460 slams game better than almost anything else.

Syncerus · « **Reply #29 on:** April 28, 2006, 11:39:11 AM »

FWIW, the book "Ballistics in Perspective" discusses the .460 Weatherby issues in detail. The book is very "hands-on", and I found it informative. Never having hunted Africa myself, I leave opinions to the experts.

Syncerus