Author Topic: Any opinions on the the 325 WSM? (Read 1747 times)

reyn 61 · « **on:** January 06, 2005, 05:08:50 PM »

Just wondering what everybodys take is on this caliber.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2005, 02:14:55 AM »

I think that the .325 WSM(8mmWSM in disguise) is an excellent proposition. There's nothing wrong whatsoever with 8mm cal, it's just one that never really caught on with the US market at large, and small wonder when the .338 Win Mag was introduced. Remington were onto something with the 8mm Rem Mag but the fact it requires a magnum length action & was an unpopular cal was always going to be a hard sell when competing with the .338WM.

In this way Winchester gets to have it's cake and eat it. The .325WSM isn't going to take away sales from the .338WM because it's a different cal and those who already own a .338WM but yearn for something a little different can add a .325WSM to their collection. Furthermore Winchester has the luxury of being able to market the WSM cartridge under 2 brands, Winchester and Browning, something Remington did not have with their 8mm.

And aside of all of that 8mm is a great cal that represents a step up in frontal area from .308 cal i.e. it makes a bigger hole, something those who use 8mm Mausers and 8mm Rem Mags will testify to.

Lagavulin · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2005, 01:14:23 PM »

Federal's 200 grain high energy Nosler loads in 300 win mag match the 325 wsm 200 grain loads in velocity and fps' if I've read correctly. They kill moose pretty quick. Is it that much of a gain in bullet frontal area? 7.62 vs 8? .38mm
I would be excited if they had devised a succesfull 338 short which would really be a jump up. However i dont feel at all inclined to run out and sell my M70 supergrade because the throw is now shorter. More accurate? Maybe, but 1" groups for hunting Moose and Bear is good enough for me. :money: :-)
Although I do admit, i dont know how many grains are possible for a 8mm bullet. Maybe this will spur on some better 8mm bullet weight options that will start to approach what is available in 338.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2005, 06:11:48 PM »

As far as the 200gn factory loads in 300WM equaling the 325WSM, the jury is still out on the .325WSM's capabilities. The real potential of any cartridge will in the end be found by reloading and because of the newness of this round we won't see any real results very soon. But because the 8mm does have .38mm more diameter it means that an 8mm projectile(of the same weight as a .30 cal projectile) has less length and therefore less friction in the barrel thereby allowing the 8mm projectile to have a greater MV, theoretically of course. There are a great many other factors but it does contribute when exploring maximum loads.

But that wasn't really my point. The .325WSM is an alternative. How many people, I ask you, own a 30-30, a .308, a 30-06 and a .300WM? Perhaps not a hundreds of thousands but quite a few I'd imagine. And there is another significantly larger group who own at least 3 of these calibres or even just 2. And I haven't mentioned the other numerous .30 cals available to used by shooters. What does that say in the scheme of things? That people like alternatives. It also says that Americans like .30 cal rifles. And there's nothing wrong with that either. It took them through 2 world wars and numerous other conflicts. But I think if you're in the market for something interesting then the .325 is certainly a goer.

As far a 8mm bullet development goes, Barnes this year are introducing a 180gn TSX although admittedly Barnes approach has always been to have a lighter bullet and therefore a better MV. Have a look at http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/Bullets.html . Woodleigh of Australia have a 8mm RNSN Weldcore bonded core bullet that was designed, I imagine, for 8mm Rem Mag since they built their reputation on bigbore big game bullets. It's 250gn........heavy enough for ya? :-)

Oh, Lagavulin, if you have to get rid of your Supergrade don't be afraid to send it Down Under where it'll lovingly be looked after :grin:

Lagavulin · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2005, 07:47:24 PM »

You're right about variety. I tend to be a little more conservative as to how many rifles i own compared to most others as i demand that they each take an animal a year to justify their existance to my better half. I tend to save my funds for the hunting trips and time off to do so as opposed to the 'fleet' in the cabinet. However...if money were no object...you may just see a 325wsm in my cabinet if 250 grain bullets at 2800 feet + per second are possible. My moose shots tend to be from 200-500 yards so firing a heavy grained bullet may be fine, but i also dont like the 'mortar' effect of lobbing it across a huge cut! :pizza: I have no idea what this emoticon is for but wanted to use it.

Ah the super....its not goin anywhere buddy! :wink:

RaySendero · « **Reply #5 on:** January 08, 2005, 06:07:50 AM »

Don't really have any interest in a 325 WSM but hope it stays.

Like the fact that more 8mm bullets are becoming available to reload in my 8x57. :mrgreen:

kombi1976 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 08, 2005, 08:55:14 PM »

Quote from: RaySendero

Don't really have any interest in a 325 WSM but hope it stays.

Like the fact that more 8mm bullets are becoming available to reload in my 8x57. :mrgreen:

What do you think I'm loading for, Ray? :lol:

lgm270 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2005, 05:24:26 PM »

The appearance of good, premium bullts such as Nosler Partitions, Swift A Frames (200 & 220 Grains), Barnes X Bullets (180, 200, 220 Grain) and possibly others have made the 8mm caliber a viable choice. This was not the case when the 8mm Rem magnum was introduced in 1977. No premium bullets back then.

I've never liked the 8mm, but I've been shooting a couple of 8mm mil surps and enjoy loading for it. The great strength of the 8x57 is the tons of cheap mil supr ammo for plinking and practising.

I think the .325 WSM has good potential in light of the great bullets now out there. It's got an edge over the 300 mags for larger mammals, but is still a viable long range mule deer load with the 180 grain weight.

I wish Nosler would make a 220 Grain Partition. That would be perfect for this round.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 10, 2005, 03:18:39 AM »

It's interesting that a lot of the comments here seem to reflect in the wish for heavier 8mm bullets and the .325's capability to punch them out a high velocity.
Thing is, do WSM catridges suffer the same issues as the 7mm-08 in terms of bullet length?
Do the longer/heavier bullets intrude into the powder space in a big way thereby inhibiting their performance?
Or is this overcome by the girth of the WSM case?
I think it's worth considering before we decide to load a 220gn bullet into a .325WSM that Winchester aren't loading anything over a 180gn bullet.
The 300WSM's overall length is 2.86" in most places I've looked so I can't imagine the .325's is anymore.
Any thoughts?
Anyone owned a .300WSM that they've loaded with heavy bullets?

Ramrod · « **Reply #9 on:** January 12, 2005, 01:57:38 PM »

This thing just ain't gonna fly. Nobody buys 8mm in this country, and they ain't gonna start now. When someone needs more power than the .30 calibers, they buy a .338. That's just not gonna change. Personally I don't have a need for anything between .30 and .375 cal. If I can't get it done with a 200 or 220 grain .30 caliber bullet, what does the .325 offer me? I can just step up to my .375 with a 270 grain bullet.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2005, 02:08:18 AM »

Ramrod, you're a cheery soul aren't you. :wink:
Seriously, everybody pooh-poohed the WSMs when they first emerged and people have continued to do so in some quarters and yet you can't deny that they've proved themselves.
Maybe that's all the .325 needs is a chance to show it's quality.
I know the US buying public doesn't have a reputation for opening their minds to 8mm but then there've been plenty of instances where they cried out for rounds like the 348 Win & 356 Win and when companies offered them up people didn't follow through with their dosh.
Maybe the .325 WSM will go the other way. :idea:

:agree: :!:

mr.frosty · « **Reply #11 on:** February 16, 2005, 02:39:25 PM »

i gotta 300 wsm and love it in the bolt action forum i asked about the 325 and 35 whelen for my dad may be going with the whelen instead of the 325
mainly for the recoil he's the same age as GB but as for myself i dont mind the kick of either. but i would like the 325 stay as long as some of the
ultra mags remington has.

glock29 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2005, 08:08:03 AM »

If I was inclined to buy a rifle for an 8mm cartridge, I'd buy the full-length one, the 8mm Remington Magnum, not the shorty-winnie.
I also have very little use for cartridges between the 300 Weatherby and the 375 H&H. If it needs to be smacked harder than the 300 Wby, I'd reach for a 375 H&H, a 'magnumized' 45/70 handload, or my 458 Lott.
The only cartridge that I see a point for in this range is the 340 Weatherby or the 338 ULTRA (not the shorty Winchester) Mag, although I own neither.

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2005, 04:36:46 PM »

Here's a question, what animals would the 325 WSM be good for?

Regarding greater muzzle velocity, yes the shorter bullets mean less friction, but far more importantly the same pressure acting on a larger area results in greater force with means greater acceleration. I feel the 325 WSM is the WSM that actually reaches the abilities of the 300 Win mag, which the 300 WSM claims to but doesn't.

I don't mind it being here at all, might go for one some day. But I really wish they kept moving in this direction and made a 358, 375, and 458 caliber short magnum lineup.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 20, 2005, 01:04:49 PM »

Quote from: BattleRifleG3

I feel the 325 WSM is the WSM that actually reaches the abilities of the 300 Win mag, which the 300 WSM claims to but doesn't.

I don't mind it being here at all, might go for one some day. But I really wish they kept moving in this direction and made a 358, 375, and 458 caliber short magnum lineup.

This is a feeling that I've had for a while.
I'm not sure that a 458 WSM would work but if Remington were really smart they could steal a march on Winchester and make either a 358 SAUM or a 375 SAUM.
The 376 Steyr had the same reasoning behind it and I have an article at home about folks who were hunting Siberian grizzlies using the wildcat .375 WSM with great success.
Personally I think a .416 WSM would be nice but I'd name it the 416 KSM.......Kombi Short Magnum :mrgreen:

jim21 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 19, 2006, 04:14:03 PM »

In my own opinion .325wsm is to much bullet for most any animal here in
North America,except Bear.

simplicity · « **Reply #16 on:** April 21, 2006, 08:46:26 AM »

Kombi to answer your question as to why they stopped with the 8mm. The reason why they brought the 325 as to the 338 wsm is because they couldn't get the 338wsm to come close to the 338 win mag. Plus since there really isn't any current popular 8mm cartridges then of course you can say it's better then sliced bread when you have nothing else in the 8mm caliber to compare it to. And since they couldn't get the 338wsm to beat the normal 338. Going any bigger just wouldn't perform nearly as good as what is already out there. With all the short mags look honestly at ballistics and loading data. The shormags can and some times surpass the normal lengh cartridges with the lighter bullets but they get totally surpassed by the older cartridges when it comes to the heavier end of the bullet spectrum of that caliber. Remember there is no replace for displacement. I have a 338 win mag myself I've been loading it for years, with factory ammo according to the factory the 325 just barely exceeds the 338 (they gotta sell it somehow) but when it comes to handloads the 325 and infact all the shortmags are maxed out just with factory loads. I'm getting 3225fps avge. according to my chrono with a 180gr, and a good honest 3150 fps with 200's. Granted most will say 150-200fps doesn't make a difference, that's definetly true with light bullets but when it comes to heavy bullets well do the math and see for yourselfs. As far as needed the 325 well I'll stick to what's been kicking big north american animals buts for years the 338 win mag, the same can be said for the 30-06 been around over a century and people are still raving about it.

Cappy · « **Reply #17 on:** April 21, 2006, 01:57:55 PM »

Well I have a 325WSM. Bought it because I already had a 270WSM and wanted a larger step up than a 300WSM and wanted the same rifle. Although I have yet to hunt with it. It will be my elk/moose gun. It is a Winchester Super Shadow, 6.5lb rifle with a leupold scope so add about another pound. Even with 200gr handloads loaded to max/near max, recoil although stiffer than the 270WSM is not as sharp and definately not painful to shoot at all. So far it grops very well avg'ing about an inch. Smallest groups have been .5" and largest 2". If you already have a .338WM, or one of the .30 cal mags you really don't need a .325WSM. But if you don't like the recoil of the .338WM and are looking for a dedicated elk/moose gun the .325 would be a viable option.

Harold50 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 02, 2006, 06:29:49 AM »

I am NOT trying to start an argument - just sharing my experience with the WSSM.

Quote from: simplicity

The shormags can and some times surpass the normal lengh cartridges with the lighter bullets but they get totally surpassed by the older cartridges when it comes to the heavier end of the bullet spectrum of that caliber.

May I repectfully request that the 120 grain bullet in the 25WSSM be compared to the 25-06?

http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/

My Wizm in the Model 70 Super Stealth started out at 6 lbs MT carrying weight. I shoot NPs using 38 grains of 4895. This is a hot load and must be approached cautiously. Recoils like a heavily loaded .243 Rem. I get near .270 130 gr. velocities and performance at a lighter rifle weight with a lighter recoil. The first two shots out of the barrel nearly touch each other at 100 yards ( the third will be 2 or more inches to the right).

I do not own a chronograph so I am a slave to quoting velocities as listed in the reloading manuals. Where I hunt in New England a 250-yard shot is fantasy.

I am also aware that broad statements should be accepted broadly, AND, that this conversation began with the .325WSM.

Still, my .02 worth is that this little Wizm woods rifle with the silly-looking .257 cartridge shooting heavy bullets doesn't give up much of anything to the big boys except carrying weight.

Best wishes,
Harold