Author Topic: Good accuracy w/ Contender & cast bullets (Read 1085 times)

lovedogs · « **on:** May 01, 2006, 04:53:31 PM »

Had a great shoot yesterday with a Contender Super 14 and Saeco #431 bullet cast w/ Lyman #2 alloy. It's supposed to be a 250 gr. RNFPGC but drops out at 240 gr. for me. Using a charge of 2400 and getting vel. of almost 1600 FPS it shoots into nice 1 1/4 inch groups at 100 yds. using only a 2X (Leupold) scope.

Our silhouette range has fixed silhouettes and our closest, a life-size coyote, is 176 yds. I know real silhouette shooting is done out to 200 yds. with pistols. But I imagine their rams are larger than my coyote, too.

Anyway, I've been wanting to try this pistol on steel. I finally got to give it a whirl. I worked up a ballistics chart so I knew how much holdover to use. From the Creedmoor I fired 20 shots at the coyote and hit it every time. I was surprised at how accurate this cast bullet is!

Only had 21 bullets loaded after original sight-in and had shot 20 at the coyote. So I still had one left. So just to use it I turned to our antelope. It's at 319 yds. The chart indicated about 7 ft. of drop with my sight-in and about 1 1/2 to 2 ft. of drift with the wind. I carefully estimated both factors and gently pulled the Contenders 2 lb. trigger straight back. Clink! At that distance it wasn't a very loud impact. But through my spotting scope I saw a dead-center hit about 4 inches down from the backbone.

I think I've found a new passion!

Racepres · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2006, 05:23:53 PM »

In my experience, the contender barrel is either great or poor, w/ cast bullets. but, the 1600 to 1800 fps range has always brought out the very best accuracy for me, be it T/C, Mauser, Remchester, etc... Cool for you that yours is working exceedingly well.... MV

jhalcott · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2006, 06:05:10 PM »

they can be exasperating! When you change alloy's every thing CAN change. I shot cast in my 45-70 and 30-30 and the 7tc/u. Now I'm working on a 35rem. I did get a sub inch group with it last time out but have not had a chance to go back for a second try..Maybe Wednesday!

lovedogs · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2006, 04:51:37 AM »

Yes, it's really odd how changing one small component in a load can change everything, isn't it? I was using SPG bullet lube and it just wasn't getting it. I had leading with almost every gun and load. Then I discovered Glenn Larsen's 50/50 formula of beeswax and alox. By the way, if anyone wants his contact info, let me know and I'll post it. In this Contender (.44 mag) Glenn's lube caused a 3 inch shift in impact at 100 yds. The load still shot well though and now I get NO leading with any of my cast bullet loads in all the guns I use cast in. It sure is nice when it all comes together for us, isn't it?

rickyp · « **Reply #4 on:** May 07, 2006, 04:15:44 AM »

I just got a encore 454 casull barrel and I cast some 45 caliber 300 gr gaschecked bullets using lyman super molly
I took it out and got 3" groups at 30 yards with open sights, this is not great but I think it was more me then the barrel

lovedogs · « **Reply #5 on:** May 07, 2006, 05:09:38 AM »

Hey rickyp...

While that's not great grouping it might not be that bad with such a large round. Are you used to big pistol cartridges? If not, maybe it'll be easier once you get used to it. You might try some .45 Colt loadings in it for a while to get used to it a little at a time. A good scope will help, too.

How did the Lyman lube work for you? As I mentioned in a previous post, I've found a good source for some great lubes at a real reasonable price. You might want to look at this web site... www.lsstuff.com/lube Glenn is a real nice guy who makes really good lubes at more than fair prices. Most of my club members here are now using his stuff.

Best of luck to ya. God bless!

Mike

rickyp · « **Reply #6 on:** May 07, 2006, 06:43:33 AM »

This was the first time I shot this barrel I am very use to large handguns
I have a 14 inch 375 JDJ and a 15 inch 45-70 encore , 308 winchester encore.and 15 inch 209x50
Most of my shooting is done with a scoped handun.

This was the very first load I did with the 454 and I used some a lee dipper so with some work and using the scale I should do better and I know I can do better once I scope it.

I like the lyman super moly, I found it works better if you heat it some, I am now using a 100 w light bulb in a shop lightafter about 20 minutes the lube is nice and warm.

lovedogs · « **Reply #7 on:** May 07, 2006, 11:15:30 AM »

Boy, I guess you're used to large handguns. If you shoot that .45-70 I suppose you ought to be able to handle about anything. I've never shot one and from what I hear, I don't really have much desire to try one. Even with my Contender when I put on the .44 mag or the .30-30 barrel I also put on a Decelerator grip. Seems to me a Decelerator for that Encore might also be a good idea. But Pachmayr has always been slow to come around with what we shooters need.

Racepres · « **Reply #8 on:** May 07, 2006, 01:14:15 PM »

As an atectdote [sp] One of my first barrels for my contender , back in like 79 or so, was a 45/70. Once I perched it on a wooden fence post as a rest and touched it off, which took a sizeable "chunk" off the bottom of the grip. This caused some modicum of concern, as well as drawing a bit of MY blood. Didn't take me long to trade that barrel for an octagon .44 , which I think was worse!!! Probably I am simply recoil sensitive. Today I reload sensible loads and use the "right tool for the right job" If you can handle it... go for it. Me... I am a Wuss. My most powerful handgun cartridge, currently is the 357 Herret, which I am in total love with... MV
BTW back on subject, My 7tcu shoots cast bullets better than any firearm I own... When you get a good one...Hang onto it.

lovedogs · « **Reply #9 on:** May 07, 2006, 03:30:30 PM »

I'm certainly no expert on the really large pistols. My limit is the .44 mag. Even some .44's can hurt though. With me a lot depends on the grip. I've never liked the S&W grips. They all hurt me. But a Dan Wesson is a pleasure to shoot.

When we go to a single-action it's another animal. They roll and handle recoil better [for me].

Then the Contender is yet another animal. I've shot some short barreled ones that were very unpleasant. The heavier 14 inchers I can handle with the newer factory grip, but the Decelerator makes it actually pleasant to shoot. Add a pair of Past shooting gloves and I can shoot it all day.

So many things affect how we perceive recoil. Position is another factor. On a bench? On sticks? Creedmoor? Prone? They are all different. Give me my Super 14 .44 mag wearing a Decelerator grip in any position except offhand and I'm set for anything.

jhalcott · « **Reply #10 on:** May 08, 2006, 12:39:25 PM »

went to the range to see if I could get another good group with cast in my 14" 35rem. I got sub inch groups at 50 yards,I got a 2 1/4 " group(3 shots) at 100. 34.5/3031/wlr/358315 lyman (200 grain) I wish my whelen did as well.

lovedogs · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2006, 05:39:07 AM »

Some years ago a gunsmith friend of mine wanted to come up with something that would at least equal the .35 Rem. in a Contender but without some of its inherent problems, such as the tiny shoulder and the rimless case design. What he did was to take a .357 Herrett barrel and ream it to take a .375 Win. case. What he wound up with was a .375 necked down to .35 cal. that he named the .35-.375 KAP.

Later, I happened to wind up with one of these barrels. The .375 case was stout and lasted forever. I never did wear out any brass. It also beat the .35 Rem. on all counts and was a great caliber for the Contender. It accounted for a number of antelope, deer, and a half-dozen elk.

I'm not sure what the .35 Rem. should be capable of using cast lead bullets. What you're getting is not bad, but I've come to expect slightly better from the Contenders I've worked with. Even the straight-sided pistol calibers are quite often capable of groups right around an inch at 100 yds. All of my rifle calibers will shoot under an inch, with the varmint calibers going under a half-inch, sometimes less. I've had two .223's that would shoot right at 1/4 in. all day; wonderful on prairie dogs.

The .35-.375 KAP shot either Hornady 200 gr. or Rem. 200 gr. SP's into an even inch at 100 yds., that wearing a 2X Burris. It was stricktly a hunting gun so I never tried it with a more powerful scope. It was an awesome barrel that I've regretted trading off. But you know how it goes with us gun people. Sometimes we get the itch for something else. And we often regret our trades.

Keep working on your .35 Rem. and I'll bet you can get it down to around and inch, though that's not really necessary for a short-range gun. It's fun to see just how good we can get them to shoot, and those Contenders are pretty awesome.

jhalcott · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2006, 08:21:52 AM »

love ,this is a cast bullet! My 6.5JDJ and 7T/Cu will shoot bug holes with jacketed. I am too old and poor to worry about the tiniest groups any more. HEY! IF I see a deer my FIRST thoughts are "How far to the D#@N road.and is it an uphill drag?" then I figure out the shot. :lol: I wore out a 22-250 looking for just a little more accuracy. There are very few shots around these parts that require 1/4' accuracy. Most of the farms are either golf courses or housing developements now. Remember Mothers day is sunday!!

rickyp · « **Reply #13 on:** May 09, 2006, 08:40:05 AM »

We have to remember there is hunting accuracy and target accuracy.

If I can get 4" or less at hunting ranges and condations with a handgun i am happy. Not If I spent the money of a target grade rifle and all the fancy reloading toys and take the time I expect very small groups.

thisbeing said all my guns are for hunting, even my savage moder 10 fp-le2 police sniper rifle is nothing more them a heavy barreld hunting rifle but I can get way less then 1" at 100 yards with is

lovedogs · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2006, 02:09:31 PM »

Wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. And I understand we're talking cast bullets here. I also stated I don't know what kind of accuracy to expect from the .35 Rem. I've always been under the impression that there's no such thing as inherently accurate, or inaccurate calibers, and that any gun with a good barrel can be made to shoot accurately when the load and other factors pertaining to accuracy are right. I don't do anything too special to any of my guns or loadings, just basic care in my reloads and setting up the guns for shooting. And I don't have any that don't shoot quite well, as stated earlier.

I was just curious about what kind of accuracy you thought you should get with the .35 Rem. If you're happy with it the way it's shooting that's great. After all, it's your gun. I feel a Contender would do better. But if you're happy that's all that's needed.

jhalcott · « **Reply #15 on:** May 10, 2006, 04:00:02 PM »

no ruffled feathers here Love! I don't shoot them for prizes any more, just fun. The 35 rem isn't designed for ultimate accuracy, the barrel is a factory 14" and wears a 2x scope! I've developed carpal tunnel and the recoil gets to me quick. SOO, ANY THING UNDER 3" IS GOOD>. The RIGHT loads and a higher x scope and better hands ? Maybe an inch off sandbags isn't TOOO far fetched. That's cast OR jacketed loads. I knew a guy when I shot sillywets that shot cast in a 308 wichita. he shot a lot of 40's and hit many snuff cans at 200 yards.Without a scope! My SBH 44 mag revolter USED to shoot inch groups at 50 yards with MY cast 225's I built a load for my 30-06 with an RCBS 185 gcfn that would put 5 in a dime @100 yards.Won some $$ with that load :wink: I've found the 14"T/C barrel to be more accurate than most lever gun barrels.

lovedogs · « **Reply #16 on:** May 14, 2006, 03:35:39 AM »

Hey jhalcott...

Glad I didn't ruffle any feathers. It'd be bad to see someone with a gun running around with ruffled feathers, ha-ha.

Sorry to hear 'bout your wrist problem. I've got me one of those ailments, also. It's called SLAC wrist; for Scafoid, Lunate, Advanced Collapse. It's when the cartilage between the Scafoid and Lunate bones which form your hand is seperated. If I do too much hard work or shooting of heavy-recoiling handguns it sure lets me know about it. The doctor says it's kind of like trying to shoot with a broken wrist, so you can imagine how uncomfortable it can be. I just try to be careful with it. A PAST shooting glove helps slow the shock though. Not to be a sissy, but it's too painful to not use some prevention. Got to keep shootin', you know.

Yeah, the Contenders, as a rule, are more accurate than most guns. It oft surprises my shooting friends that they'll often outshoot most rifles, including some pretty sophisticated varmint rifles. But we do have to learn a specific shooting technique to get them to perform up to par. They're a different sort of cat, a breed that stands alone. But man, do they shoot!

Good luck and best regards!

Mike