Author Topic: Some Interesting Range Data-9MM ammo (Read 670 times)

SoftPoint · « **on:** May 12, 2006, 04:30:55 PM »

I went to the range today armed with my Taurus Mil Pro PT-111 9mm and Wn USA 115 & 147 JHP's. This pistol has a 3.25" barrel. I chronograghed 10 shot groups from each load. The 115's avg 1032 fps while the 147's avg was 988. Accuracy from the loads was equally good. The lack of velocity of the 115's lowers the energy ratings significantly, while the 147's maintained rated velocity and energy. What does this mean? To me it means you are better off shooting a load with a smaller powder charge in shorter barreled handguns.They will achieve max velocity with a smaller muzzle flash. So in this case, the 147's were the winner. I also shot each round into 20" of foam to retreive the bullets to record expansion. Both rounds expanded to about .6", but the penetration on the 147's was 9", as opposed to 6" for the 115's. These were uncalabrated measurements taken in high density ethafoam. Please comment if you agree or disagree with my assumptions.

williamlayton · « **Reply #1 on:** May 12, 2006, 11:21:10 PM »

Well, lets see here.
The first thought was the reason for the 9mm in the first place at such low velocities. The .45 produces much the same velocity and a 9mm is capable of much higher velocities which is needed when bullet weight is lower.
That thought might produce arguement though.
Blessings

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #2 on:** May 13, 2006, 06:25:07 AM »

That 115 gr. bullet at 1000+ fps looks awfully peeked as a man stopper. I've gotta get my Para 6.45 Carry to the range with my chrono and see what it's actually turning out. My guess is that its not as effective as I'd hoped.

Lone Star · « **Reply #3 on:** May 13, 2006, 06:34:57 AM »

You are using the wrong ammo for personal defense. While you are getting very close to the listed velocity with the 147USA FMJ rounds - 990 fps - this is not high-performance ammo. The 147 Silvertips get 1010 fps with an expanding bullet to increase stopping power.

The 115 USA FMJs are listed at just 1190 fps compared to 1225 for the 115 Silvertips. Again, use bullet expansion to increase the effectiveness of self defense cartridges. At this level, even 20-40 fps can make a difference, particularly with bullet expansion.
.

SoftPoint · « **Reply #4 on:** May 13, 2006, 09:56:19 AM »

I am not using the FMJ's. This are the JHP's. What I was trying to bring out is that it dont matter if you use high speed ammo with a shorter barrel. Since the barrel is not long enough to burn all the powder of +p loads, you are better off using a load that has a smaller charge. The 115's book velocity is 1225 fps, but that is using a longer barrel. With the sjorter barrel it only develops an average of 1032fps. The 147's with a smaller powder charge to compensate for the higher pressure that the heaver bullet creates, runs much closer to the 990 fps book velocity, so therefore it is a more efficient load. Don't you agree?

Siskiyou · « **Reply #5 on:** May 13, 2006, 01:00:31 PM »

A little history lesson. The 147 grain 9mm ammunition came about because of the failer of the 115 grain silvertip ammuniton used by FBI agents in the Miami bank robbery shoot out. The 147 grain ammuntion was loaded at velocities below 1000 fps intentionally. I was issued boxes of 147 grain Winchester hollow points labeled "For Law Enforcement" only.

http://www.thegunzone.com/miami-ammo.html

The 115 grain Silvertip bullet was improved in later generations. Winchester push for a better bullet. The hot item to come out was Winchester's Black Talon bullet. Marketing and success killed this bullet.

Before this event I was convinced that when circumtances started to look like a gun fight was in the offering I wanted a shotgun or a rifle in my hands. When policy allowed I carried a .45 or .357. I also believe that a number of times that armed suspects gave up when they heard a round being racked into the chamber of an 870.

Like most LE Officers I never discharged my firearm in the line of duty.

SoftPoint · « **Reply #6 on:** May 13, 2006, 05:29:35 PM »

I am asking people for their opinions on whether my logic is correct.

jro45 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2006, 10:35:47 AM »

What about the 124s going 1200 fps

Siskiyou · « **Reply #8 on:** May 14, 2006, 02:34:10 PM »

http://stevespages.com/page8f380acp.html

http://www.gunweek.com/2002/feature0601.html

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IVG14.html

I have asked my self the same question. The problem is in the testing. But in general longer barrels generate more velocity. But some firearms have faster barrels then others. So you have to chop on the same barrel to get a good comparison But most testing data that I have read is that a
A round that produces the highest velocity in a long barrel will produce the higher velocity in a short barrel. There maybe and may not be more muzzle flash. Some powders by design produce a lower flash.

Barrel length and accuracy. I had a very accurate M66 in .357 with a 2.5 barrel. I had a M36, which did not produce great accuracy because of the trigger pull. But the M36 was the choice a few times because it was better then a shape pencil.

If you check out the Winchester reloading page on the web you will find that the same powder is used for top velocity loads for 115 bullets and 147 grain bullets. The 115 grain bullet gets a tad more.

I find this interesting but I only use reload handgun ammuntion on the range, factory new ammunition for serious use.

If you find some good data please provide the link.

jgalar · « **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2006, 05:30:48 PM »

Softpoint, an error in your logic is that you did not try the same bullets in a longer barrel to compare with the short barrel. The 115 grain bullets may not shoot any or much faster in the longer barrel. Sometimes ammo manufacturers overinflate their velocities. Typically there isn't a whole lot of difference between the velocities of a 5" and a 3+" barrel when shooting 9mm. At least when compared to the change between a service sized revolver and a snubby shooting 38s.