Author Topic: Factory .223 Ammo Test Results (Read 1833 times)

EVOC ONE · « **on:** April 25, 2006, 05:10:47 AM »

Seems I've found another brand of ammo that shoots well in my .223 and thought I might pass along the results.

I picked up some Federal American Eagle 50gr Flat Base HP and 55 gr FMJ. I found some at $4.99 per box. I have been working with it in my .223 Handi tapered barrel and to date have a best 200 yd, five shot group with the HP's measuring 2" wide, 1" high. I typically shoot two-three shot groups, but the group was tight so I decided to see what the results would be with more shots. After five shots, the barrel was heating up and the last shot actually opened the group to 2".

Yesterday I dropped a ground hog at 292 steps (no range finder, yet). He stood up showing me his back. My aim was center mass. He spun and rolled over once but then ran. I saw a dirt cloud behind him and thought I missed, but after about 5 yds he stopped in his tracks. I could not find an entrance wound but found an exit on the right side on his back. There was just a small amount of blood. No blood on the ground that I could see. I'm not sure how the bullet reacted. I'm thinking it may not have expanded. I curious. Any thoughts?

My results with the FMJ have not been as good. I can't seem to get anything better than 2" at 100 yds, although the group is nice.

This rifle also shoots the Win white box very well. Groups at 100yds are usually less than an inch.

The only modifications are an "O" ring and the barrel being polished.

The scope is a Bushnell Sportsman 3X9X40 with Leupold aluminum rings.

I've since returned to the gun shop and bought the remaining six boxes of American Eagle that he had. He's checking to see if he can get anymore, but its no longer listed in his order book. Shucks!

Thanks.

EVOC ONE

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** April 25, 2006, 05:55:39 AM »

Thanks for the range report!! Natchez carries American Eagle...

American Eagle Ammo

myarmor · « **Reply #2 on:** April 25, 2006, 06:56:58 AM »

Interesting. first off a couple questions for you:
1- Is your Handi a Wood stocked, or a Synthetic version?
2- 1-12....or 1-9 twist?
3- Did you shoot the Groundhog with an FMJ?
I have shoot them with FMJs before, clean hit and see the "red mist", and see them run back to the hole :x

I've also killed with them before, hitting head or upper shoulder frame area.
I have yet to try the American Eagles yet, but I might pick up a box of the Hollow Points next time I see them.
Thanks for sharing.
-Aaron

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** April 25, 2006, 04:27:25 PM »

The 55gr FMJBT went on sale today..

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=FAAE223&src=be87

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #4 on:** April 26, 2006, 02:17:37 AM »

Thanks much for the Natchez info, Quick.

Aaron:

1-Typical pallet wood with no modifications other than the O ring.
2-2002 model. Bought new. I suspect a 1-12 twist. Was my first Handi Rifle.
3-The bullet was a hollow point but the jacket extends to the hole. No lead exposed.

I discussed this with my father. He suspects the FMJ design of the Amer. Eagle hollow point was not soft enough to allow it to expand against the hide of a ground hog, which is generally not considered to be tough.

He shoots a early 70's Mod 788 Rem in .222 and uses Sierra 50 gr soft points loaded to about 3100 fps MV. At 200 yds he figures its down to around 2400-2500 FPS. He's shot them at distances out to 200 yds and has never hit one that hasn't stopped in its tracks. They always have a severe entrance and exit wound.

I've considered reloading the .223, but the American Eagle and Win white box stuff shoots well enough that I'm not sure it worth the time and expense to experiment with it. I may just strive for head shots.

EVOC ONE

Dillohide · « **Reply #5 on:** April 26, 2006, 05:35:20 AM »

Curious if you, or anyone, has tried the Rem UMC 50 gr JHP. I picked up some at Walmart, which is the only place I've seen them, but haven't tried them yet. I see these a lot in the 45 gr JHP but not the 50 gr.

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #6 on:** April 26, 2006, 03:29:06 PM »

I have a box of the Rem UMC, but have yet to give it a try.

I may get the chance this weekend. I'll post the results.

EVOC ONE

De41mag · « **Reply #7 on:** April 26, 2006, 05:55:19 PM »

EVOC ONE;

292 is a long way, even for a .223. Plus your shooting a 22 inch barrel so you have slowed down quite a bit. That's a darn good shot in anybodys book. Chcek your velocity on the box. Most Federal ammo lists it. Plus the American Eagle brand, if I'm not mistaken, are under normal velocities for the same weight bullet in a preminum load.
Great shooting.

Dennis

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #8 on:** April 27, 2006, 03:15:26 PM »

Dennis:

Thank you for the very nice compliments. I don't have a long stride and figured the shot to be around 225 yds.

You are correct that the specs. are listed on the box. At 200yds the velocity is listed as 2460 fps, 2060 at 300yds and 1700 at 400 yds.

As good as this ammo shoots I've decided to use it for just target practice. I hit another ground hog today a little further out (just under 400 steps) and he clearly took a wild tumble but limped off into the hedge row wounded. I just don't like do that.

As I mentioned this rifle also likes the Win white box out to 100yds. I'll spend some time this weekend with that and the Rem UMC and see what happens at 200 yds. I also have a .223 Ultra, but have yet to get serious with it. I may take it along as well.

Appreciate the comments and suggestions, guys.

EVOC ONE

Big Moe · « **Reply #9 on:** April 30, 2006, 01:18:07 AM »

Thanks for the good test results , I will give the American Eagle a try. Been using the WWB 45gr JHP with good results. I have two .223's A heavy barrel and fluted barrel. The fluted barrel seems to shoot the best groups, down to 1/2 and 3/4 at 100 yards. Both have the Cholate syn stocks and a trigger job. I am having a problem with the heavy barrel, it doesn't seem to be consistant in grouping. Just got a Simmons varmet scope 6x24 50mm. The AO is clear and scope is very bright. The groups are better on 12 to 14 power! At 24 I see too much movement and is difficult to keep steady. I'll go back to the club and try it in the bench rest without the bi pod today. A co- worker went to West Virginia this weekend, "Ground Hogs-0 Co worker-4" The longest shot 260 yards with WWB 45gr hp. He also has the fluted barrel Ultra Varmet. He says the range finder is the ticket! Good luck and good hunting.

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #10 on:** April 30, 2006, 02:07:07 AM »

Thanks Big Moe. At 24 power the scope is probably picking up your heart beat (pulse). I've seen examples of that at lesser magnifications. I've read threads where others have mentioned that their groups change at different magnifications. The same could be happening with you, unless there is a problem with the scope.

Also, you mentioned that you use a bi-pod. Some Handis haven't responded well to them. I would definitly shoot it without, just to see what happens. Handis don't seem to favor pressure on the forend. I've had my most consistant results resting the gun on the hinge and lightly resting on the front.

1/2" - 3/4" groups is exellent shooting. Hopefully you can get the scope figured out.

How about trying your friend's rifle to check if his scope works well for you at different magnifications? You may want to have him shoot yours as well. Compare the results.

Good Luck

EVOC ONE

Big Moe · « **Reply #11 on:** April 30, 2006, 10:52:35 AM »

Evoc, Many Thanks, Just got back from the range with good results. 14 to 18 power seems to work the best at 100 yards. Got groups around 1 inch and a 3 shot group at 3/4. I did use a rest in front of the break and noticed tighter groups. I will stick with the scope for now and test it on the ground hogs later in May. Thanks again for the experienced advice, couldn't ask for a better group of friends than this site.
Good shooting and God bless

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2006, 01:50:56 AM »

Big Moe: Keep up the good work and enjoy your Handi. This is a great site. Lots of help and good folks here.

Enjoy!

EVOC ONE

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2006, 02:47:35 PM »

UPDATE:

I mentioned earlier that I was going to zero the Handi .223 with the Winchester white box ammo. I decided that it shoots the American Eagles well enough to leave it alone. Instead, i took the .223 Ultra heavy barrel out with the Winchesters.

The Ultra uses a Simmons ATV 4.5X14X40 AO with Leupold Rifleman rings and H&R base. The only mods are an "O" ring and polished chamber. There was very little difficulty getting it to shoot well at 100yds. I settled with a 3/4 three shot group at 12 o'clock. Moving to 200yds I zeroed it to shoot about an 1 1/2" high at 12 o'clock. The three shot group measured just over an inch with the fourth and fifth shot taking the group out to 2".

I've been out twice since then hunting ground hogs and have hit four. Using the Winchester ammo, each dropped where they stood. Still, there has been very little observed wound damage. The ranges have been from about 30 yds to 250 yds. The 30 yd shot produced the only visible entry damage. Even that was minimal, but none of the shots showed any visible exit wound.

Could the higher velocity 45 gr rounds be shattering internally?

On one of these occasions I took a shot at a fox. He was a good 200yds away and probably closer to 220-225. He was walking away from me from right to left. Once he paused and I hit him just in front of the left rear leg. The bullet clearly exited just behind the right front leg. There was significant damage at both the entry and exit site's. Grotesque, actually!

That was the kind of damage I have been expecting with the ground hogs. It has been suggested that the ground hog hide is not tough enough to cause expansion of the FMJ HP style bullet. Seems the fox hide was.

At any rate, I'm pleased with the Winchesters. At least they are producing instant results.

EVOC ONE

Qaz · « **Reply #14 on:** May 18, 2006, 02:04:32 AM »

Groundhogs are tough, but not that tough. A good hit with a 223 will drop them now, that is in the head or upper chest. If you are having trouble with the fmj hp passing through, it will still leave a dime size hole when it exits and that will kill them.

I shoot the Rem UMC 50gr in a 223 pistol and have gotten nice tight groups but never cared for the way the brass looks, new in the box.

Evoc- even the ballistic tip bullets act like solids once they slow down enough. 292 steps is a fair distance for a 223 on a groundhog without putting the bullet in his head.

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #15 on:** May 18, 2006, 03:20:49 PM »

Qaz - Others made the same suggestion regarding the loss of velocity and that may be what I'm experiencing. Last evening I chose not to take a shot at a ground hog I estimated to be over 300 yds because of this.

Its ok, though. I don't have to hit everyone I see and there have been plenty at the shorter distances.

I have the Rem UMC's as well. The brass remind me of military cartridges.

EVOC ONE

georgeld · « **Reply #16 on:** May 19, 2006, 09:11:37 PM »

E/O:
Compare the twists with these two guns. I'lll bet they have different twist.
Heavy bullets do better is faster twists than slow one's.

I have a 14" on my bolt gun and it does great with 55gr and under. 40gr are one holers all day, no matter how many shots.

Go to a soft point, or plastic tipped bullet like V Max. They'll do a good job of killing when hit right way beyond the short 225yd ranges you're shooting.

I kill p/dogs out to 500yds easily when hit with the 55gr. anything under 425yds is in severe danger of it's life when I'm shooting my .223. Am an old holdover and guesstimate shooter with a box car full of prairie dogs as evidence of the practice. We don't have hogs out here in CO, but, we do have lots of p/dogs. Best thing invented yet to make a marksman out of any shooter. I preach: "take your big game rifle out and shoot all day, you'll be a top game killer come fall".

Good thread,

George

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #17 on:** May 20, 2006, 12:18:54 AM »

Georgeld: Thanks for the suggestions. I had not considered different twists. Earlier Myarmor pondered the twist on the Handi and given that it is a 2002 model, I suspected it to have a 1:12 twist as well. The Ultra is an older model that I picked up used. I guess it could have a different twist, but I'll have to check.

425 - 500 yds on a praire dog! Outstanding shooting on a much smaller target. The ground hogs I've been hitting are most likely approaching 15-20 pounds. Your virtually shooting a squirrel size creature. Exellent!

I 100% agree with your comment "Take your big game rifle out and shoot all day ..."

Thanks again.

EVOC ONE

Big Moe · « **Reply #18 on:** May 20, 2006, 12:58:52 AM »

Took 1/2 a day off, went to the farms. Got two pasture plumers! Pure fun. I used the wwb 45gr hollow point. First hog at 160 yards, he was standing up and facing me. Hit him right in center of chest. He did a back flip and never moved again. The exit was the size of a quarted with a 6 inch trail of guts and ?. I would guess the bullet hit the back bone. Any way I am happy with the WWB.45 gr. The other ground hog was hit at 126 yards with a remington core loc. Very little noticeable damage but a quick and instants kill. Great day, very windy, I was worried they wouldn't come out. I feel confident in the Ultra Fluted. I used the 14 power not 24 and bi pod shooting off the truck roof. Learned some more about ground hog hunting: Rule # 1 Always have gun ready, they won't wait for you.
Rule #2 Take the shot, they don't like for you to sneek up closer
or get in tactical position.
Rule #3 Less riding around, More sit still & wait, must have fried
chicken, nabs, drinks and apples.
Great day, I pray you folks have a hunt as relaxing and fun as mine was.

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #19 on:** May 21, 2006, 04:05:23 AM »

Sounds like your having a great time, Big Moe.

The wwb are definitly stopping them.

The farmer where I hunt has a group of junk cars and trucks stuffed into a corner hedge row. I lay a drop cloth across the hood of an old Bronco and set up my rest and gear on the hood. I set my folding bag chair up and sit in a position where I think I blend in with the vehicles. I use the bino's to scan the field. When I see one, I slowly get up and move a couple feet to the rifle and set up the shot. Ironiclly, the farmer chose the highest portion of the field to junk his vehicles, so I have good visibility of the about 90% of the field.

I always have my 64oz insulated mug of my favorite soft drink. Sometimes a sandwich or two and maybe a bag of pretzels, but I like the fried chicken idea.

Continued good luck and great times!

EVOC ONE

CDA · « **Reply #20 on:** May 24, 2006, 08:20:42 AM »

I am considering a .223/20 gauge combo for a cheap truck gun and maybe for some young shooters. I would like to be able to shoot the cheapest ammo possible (mil-spec. bulk, wolf, etc.). How does the ultra-cheap .223 ammo do in the NEF/H&R's? I thought I had heard something about the firing pin not being long enough, but maybe I am mistaken.

Thanks.

Game_Stalker · « **Reply #21 on:** May 24, 2006, 11:16:46 AM »

Wow, this is a great read.

EVOC ONE: When looking into getting a rangefinder, a friend taught me to walk ten regular steps and measure the distance. I found that I have short legs, moving only 280"/23' 4" every ten steps. So, each step is 28" and every 100yds is roughly 128 steps. So your 292 steps would make it somewhere in the neighborhood of 225-250yds and the 400 would have been between 300-325yds. On a 3-9x40, those are great shots on a smaller target.

In General: To anybody who's interested, I know a fella who sells 55gr Ballistic Tips for around $0.34 a piece & 52gr JHP for roughly $0.27 a piece. Looking at reloading, a cheap round runs me around $0.22 per for a standard HP round. They are chronoed at 3170f/s out of a 22" barrel. I've had great performance with these out to 200yds (as far as I've tried for). If anybody's interested in them, pm me. The fella sells them on gunbroker.com all the time and I keep his auctions on my watch list.

borg1 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 24, 2006, 03:14:02 PM »

I found a good handload that shoots 0.75 in, on average, at 200 yds in my .223. I have the bull barrel version.

It is a Barnes Varminator 40 gr HP in front of 27 gr of Varget and CCI primers (400's). It shoots about as well at 100 as it does at 200 yards. i am guessing the bullet stabilizes better beyond 100??

it DEVASTATES p'dogs... :wink:

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #23 on:** May 25, 2006, 12:51:02 AM »

CDA: NEF does not recommend using surplus ammo in their rifles due to the potential of excessive pressures. I've had no experiance with Wolf in rifle calibers. I first used Wolf in .45 ACP and found it to be very dirty, so I have not bothered to use for anything else.

The Federal Amer. Eagle at $4.99 per box has been the least expensive ammo I've seen. The newer Rem green/white box performs well for me, but I've not taken the time to get very serious with it. I believe it goes for around $6-7 per box at Wal-mart.

I've not experianced any problems with the firing pin on either of my .223's. I did polish the chambers on each due to intermitten stuck cases. It didn't take long and I've had no problems since. Used JB Bore Cream.

Game Stalker: Appreciate for the ranging tips. I'll try it. Thank you for the kind comments. I zeroed the rifles at 200 yds with the scopes on 6X. This was the first time I've ever set the zero from anything other than 4X, but the eyes are not what they used to be.

Thanks.

EVOC ONE