The VA sent me a new tin-foil beanie...

[FWiedner]

Got my letter in the mail earlier this week that politely informed me that the Veterans Administration has managed to lose control of my sensitive personal information, and to offer their recommendations regarding what might be done if their oversight causes me any problems.

The most obvious recourse, (aka holding them responsible), was not among the solutions that were recommended.

Then it occured to me...

The data that was "affected" pertains to those veterans who are still of an age to be "vital", that meaning that are still able, and likely willing, to do the jobs that they were trained for in the military.  Men who probably still have steel in their spines and can back it up.

Combine that with the relative ease with which the IRS was used to locate these 20 million some-odd veterans, and I am interested to observe that the government has just gone through the administrative process of pin-pointing the locations of the greater majority of trained, experienced, and most likely armed "core" of any possible resistance that they might expect to encounter in a national "emergency" event.

That said, I don't think the data was compromised at all.  I think that the government took advantage of a popular crime of the times that seemed plausible and fabricated an excuse to justify creating a virtual "dragnet" to locate potential speed-bumps.

Does this breach in security seem more than a bit contrived to anyone but me?

 :evil:

[Shorty]

FW,
What, you think that "they" don't already know everything about you that "they" want to know?
 :wink:
My take on this whole deal is that some petty crook stole a lap-top, and would have had no interest or knowlege of the value of whatever was contained in it.  Now, if he has half a brain, thanks to all the press about it, he just might think that he has something of real value, AND that information stands a much greater chance of being misused than it would have.  :roll:

[FWiedner]

I'm suggesting a class of people that might be considered either a danger or a pool of talent because of training and exposure to a period of military discipline.

The powers that be want control of a nice docile herd of sheep.  In order to claim ownership they need to cut out the rams and collar any potential sheep-dogs.

Now that they've got a nice consolidated list, all they need are a few trucks and an element of surprise.

You don't really believe that some mid-level yo-yo maintains a database with information on 26 millions veterans on a laptop so that he can have something to read at home on the weekend?  How big do you think that database would be?  How many laptops have that capacity?

Smells like fish to me.

 :?

[victorcharlie]

That's how far computing, and computer power has progressed in the last few years.  That laptop computer, would have filled a very large data center a few years ago.

It's not suprising to me that some dead line required some weekend work so the data was copied by some poor smuck who thought they might need something and not have it.  Then, some smack addicted low life broke in and stole it.  Happens everyday.

With the proliferation of data, security requirements needed to safe guard the information struggle to keep up and with so much data it's impossible to keep audits current.  

I got my letter Monday.....haven't opened it yet.....I'm afraid it might start with something like "Greetings from your friends and neighbors......you have been selected....etc...etc......NAWWWWWWWWW....what a nightmare.....

[DWTim]

I'm not a data analyst like our friend at the VA, but I /am/ a network admin. I find his story highly implausible. I just don't believe the coicidence that the piece of equipment containing the data just happened to be stolen on the very same day that the fool brought it home. I'd consider my network low-medium security level, yet it would be a lot harder for one of my users to do what this clown did, without stealing server equipment out of a locked cabinet.

Frankly, FWiedner's post scares me a little, but I tend to think it was just good, old-fashioned fraud. Hey, lots of illegals need socialism security numbers.

[slide-flipper]

my laptop has an 80gb hard drive...  WAY more than enough room to hold a 26 million records with what is supposed to be only a few fields for each record.  Not a problem...  about 3kb for each record.  Of course then you have to subtract out space for operating system and extra files, say about 5 gb... still leave over 2k a piece.   I agree, I think someone stole the laptop and either fenced it or tossed it when they realized what they had.  I remember one time years ago when I worked for White House Communications.  One of our trucks full of comm equipment was stolen.  Truck was unmarked/rental.  Was found next day with all equipment inside, nothing missing or damaged.  Evidently the thieves wanted a quick score but when they found out what they had... they decided they didn't want the FBI and USSS after them...  I imagine their pucker factor went up and they parked it and lit out...

[Mikey]

I would think it entirely plausible if we had a klinton, schumer, fienstein, daly, bloomberg, lautenberg, spitzer cuomo or any other liberal democrap in the whitehose (sorry Monica), whitehouse.  

The mis-use of government information is a mis-nomer for low-bred (klinton, cuomo, etc) government intention.  And do not doubt for a moment that democraps would not lose the opportunity to use that information to disarm America.  

I wouldn't worry so much about an aluminum foil beanie as I would about having enough guns and ammo to either drive off, or kill or capture a raiding party of government goons (and Texas heart shots count).  Mikey.

[victorcharlie]

Seems the nuclear energy dept. has a problem with data security :

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/09/national/main1698356.shtml?source=RSS&attr=U.S._1698356

Wasn't it Citibank who lost a million customer files?

It was rumored that Office Depot stored customer pin numbers for those who used ATM cards and that data was stolen.....

Think Bi-Lo doesn't know more about your diet than you do?

Remember the big fire in St. Louis that destroyed a lot of veterns paper records?  1973 I believe.....one of the first things I did upon my discharge was to register my DD form 214 at the local county courthouse.

I think most of this information is guarded, but some of it is public record.

A lot of  our federal agencies have antiquated IT equipment and software.

The air traffic controllers were using IBM 360 generation mainframe computers (circa 1960's) up through the mid to late ninties.  Y2K forced a lot of upgrades, but most people would be suprised at how out dated a lot of our government's IT infrastructure really is.

Indian affairs is said to be one of the worst examples.......I understand they bought new equipment and left it sitting on the computer room floor for years without ever hooking it up.  It was obsolete and was never installed.  I've seen this happen several times in local, state and federal governments......they buy good equipment with the software to go with it and for what ever reason, don't install it.....usually because they don't understand the requirements of installing and implementing a new solution........or they get so far into it and decide that this isn't what they need so they abandon the project.

Eitherway, the federal government and especially it's agencies have a very poor IT infrastructure....a lot of them have been working to upgrade.........that happens when you reward a person who runs good fund raisers by appointing them to be directors of an agency.

To be perfectly honest.....I think we'll see much, much more of this kind of thing.......both public and private.....

Be very careful who you give your personal information too........

[DWTim]

my laptop has an 80gb hard drive...  WAY more than enough room to hold a 26 million records with what is supposed to be only a few fields for each record.  Not a problem...  about 3kb for each record.

I have no argument with this, but the VA must have zero security in place. For something this sensitive, or this expansive, no single user should have access to the entire database file to copy it. A multi-user database of 26 million records would require a central server with lots of RAM in it, and that the users would have to extract the information through queries. I've got a few dozen users accessing a file-based system with a few thousand records, and it can be excruciatingly slow.

[victorcharlie]

I agree with you DWTim......but we don't know if the query was already ran and output to an excel spreadsheet and then the spreadsheet copied or what......

I'm really not sure what database the VA is  unning.....or if there is more than one........Oracle....informix......DBII....SQL.....etc.....but I'll try to find out......what do you want to bet it's an Access data base?

[DWTim]

...what do you want to bet it's an Access data base?

Sadly, you've probably hit the nail on the head. I've seen far too many of these types of projects at the state level. They hire a 90-day developer with a certificate from some local training place, and then demand an in-house solution for dirt-cheap. It usually ends up being FoxPro- or Access-based. Then the guy is promoted/fired/quits, and they hold onto some bug-ridden mess for a decade because they're too afraid to replace something that "sorta works".

I'm scratching the surface here, it gets much worse. But the VA needs some more vigilant system admins or network security people. I've been trying to stamp out the habit of collecting staff SSNs by anyone other than payroll. You'd be surprised (or maybe not) about how casual people are with someone else's private, personal information.

Still, this thing with the VA makes my head want to explode. :evil:

[victorcharlie]

Still, this thing with the VA makes my head want to explode. :evil:

I'm pretty torqued off about it myself.....haven't called my congressman or senators yet as I'm still waiting on more details.

I think the least they can do is give us unlimited access to our credit bureau information.  This once a year check isn't near enough.

Veterans have taken it on the chin for years now......continued cut-backs in benefits and now this..........

This is a fine thanks a lot for a job well done isn't it?  All veterans deserve better.............few expect anything...........

[Hammerspur]

I would think it entirely plausible if we had a klinton, schumer, fienstein, daly, bloomberg, lautenberg, spitzer cuomo or any other liberal democrap in the whitehose (sorry Monica), whitehouse.  

Add to that list: Kennedy (either impaired derelict, the crash test dummy or his submarine commander father!)) Byden, Boxer, Kerry, Gore, Howard Dean (WRETCH!!) etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum!  :x

[rockbilly]

This is just the tip of the iceberg, security in almost every area of government, including the military is sorely lacking.  Makes you wonder about the people we elected to run this country.  This is good data to generate legal documents for all of those here illegally.

Hammerspur, you need to lighten up on Monica.  Did you know she turned thirty today?  Seems like only yesterday she was crawling around on the floor at the Whitehouse........... :wink:  :wink:

[victorcharlie]

Well, it happened again.....another laptop stolen with D.C. workers personal information.....

Not password protected....data not encripted.........

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060618/ap_on_re_us/data_theft_d_c

Seems no ones really concerned about data security.......

[Sourdough]

Got a feeling laptops are going to have major restrictions placed on them.  Too easy for sensative material to come up missing.

[ironglow]

Rockbilly;
 
  As you said, seems like only yesterday, Monica was crawling around on the Whitehouse floor..
   
   Sounds like old "Slick"..if they're old enough to crawl...

   Don't like what I hear about our vet records...I will believe it to be more authentic when I hear that the schmuck clerk that took classified info home is up on charges...facing 10-15 years in the slammer..

[Sourdough]

The wife and I both got our letters this week.  Oh well what can we do?  Just wait and see if anything happens.

[Land_Owner]

It is best not to make generalities like...

This is just the tip of the iceberg, security in almost every area of government, including the military is sorely lacking.

I challenge you to back this up with facts...I work VERY closely for the Military that you purport to be "security lax"  They will kick your  a s s  (and a few other places too) in a New Yourk minute if you are found being "lax" with their sensitive information.  

Makes you wonder about the people we elected to run this country.

ROGER THAT!  While I prefer Republicians in the Whitehouse, you still better watch your wallets because us "Little People" are the target more than we are the shooter.

My letter came and I am  D A M N  glad to be on that list.  Not that I want someone messing with my identity, but because I am honored and privileged to be a part of a community of Brothers and Sisters that is the toughest, brightest, BADEST, most affluent and MOST FREE on this planet.  Thank a Vet for that!  You guys ROCK!    

I thought paranoia went out with the 70's?  

I am interested to observe that the government has just gone through the administrative process of pin-pointing the locations of the greater majority of trained, experienced, and most likely armed "core" of any possible resistance that they might expect to encounter in a national "emergency" event.

I say "So"?  Think they "know" what that emergency will be?  Who will survive?  Why "resistence" would need to be anticipated?  

There is something sinister in just about every action that you, me, our government, and the big "They" take.   We can conjur up the Boogie Man in every action and reaction...if we want to.  You said it right

Combine that with the relative ease with which the IRS was used to locate these 20 million some-odd veterans

 You pay tax, you are known.  I agree in principal that we should be vigilant.  

If our bretheren begin to be assailed as a result of the loss of this list (yea right, prove that association), I will line up to fight to make it "right" and them "whole".  Out of 26 million, statistics dictate that a portion of this "population" would ordinarily be "affected" without being on any list.

[victorcharlie]

And the beat goes on......

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060623/ap_on_hi_te/data_thefts;_ylt=ArfQqs0_6E5vYRJDuUlF.5Os0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3cjE0b2MwBHNlYwM3Mzg-

[DWTim]

And the beat goes on......

Wow, now that's scary. I don't know if it's just the reporting, but these have things in common. I hate to put forth a conspiracy theory, but it seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through when phishing scams are cheaper and more effective.